My natural gas rate doubled

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Since September I'm now paying nearly 11 cents per kWh, up from 5,5. Is there anything being discussed now about capping increases or any kind of credits from the goverenment? My family's going to be pissed when I lock the thermostats at 18°.:D

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Be positive, think about the savings you have made not making your house well insulated!  That would have cost you a many thousands. 

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12 minutes ago, AlexCLE said:

Since September I'm now paying nearly 11 cents per kWh, up from 5,5. Is there anything being discussed now about capping increases or any kind of credits from the goverenment? My family's going to be pissed when I lock the thermostats at 18°.:D


yes, it’s being proposed to cap them at 13 cent/kWh or something. 18 is the new 25 ;)

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlexCLE said:

 Is there anything being discussed now about capping increases or any kind of credits from the goverenment? 

From what I read and understood, whatever monthly gas bill your provider deducted for September 2022, government will pay that amount in December to your gas provider. So for December you don't have to pay the gas bill or your gas bill will be reduced by that amount. 

 

1 hour ago, AlexCLE said:
1 hour ago, AlexCLE said:

 

 

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13 hours ago, AlexCLE said:

Since September I'm now paying nearly 11 cents per kWh, up from 5,5. Is there anything being discussed now about capping increases or any kind of credits from the goverenment? My family's going to be pissed when I lock the thermostats at 18°.:D

11 is nothing.

Local Stadt provider here in Munich area will go 18 from 1st nov. Free-market or private providers ask for 25-32 cents per KWh

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Oil is not better, it went from 50c a liter in 2020 to 75c a liter in 2021 to 1,75 EUR a liter right now.

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On 12/10/2022, 21:55:46, vivanco said:

From what I read and understood, whatever monthly gas bill your provider deducted for September 2022, government will pay that amount in December to your gas provider. So for December you don't have to pay the gas bill or your gas bill will be reduced by that amount. 

I read it wrong. Its just an suggestion, not decided yet 

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3 hours ago, vivanco said:

I read it wrong. Its just an suggestion, not decided yet 

Germany, they are trying to make it as complicated as possible before delaying a decision.

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I saw this article

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/10/germany-to-pay-december-gas-bills-for-households-and-businesses

 

And thought, finally they decided something. Then I too read it was a 'recommendation'. Basically they proposed:

 

"From March 2023 to the end of April 2024, private households would pay €0.12 (£0.11) per kilowatt hour for the first 80% of last year’s use of gas."

and

"The German state is to pay this December’s monthly gas bill for all households and small- to medium-sized businesses"

 

There as some obvious issues with this.

1. How is the 'last years' bill measured, from Jan to Dec, or from the period the gas supplier issues the annual bill, July-June in my case.

2. What exactly amounts to the 'December bill'? The meter reading between 1st Dec and 31st Dec, or simply the annual bill divided by the 12 months of the year?

 

So presumably Oct+Nov, and again in Jan+Feb, mostly the coldest months, consumers will pay whatever the going rate is. From March 1st, when winter is mostly over, they will bring in some price cap for 80% of however they measured it.

 

As the rate I pay is 10.7c (Munich also), presumably is March 2023 it will rise to 12c anyway, and likely significantly more for the remaining 20% usage, above the 80% cap.

 

Ironically, turning down the thermostat this winter, and thus reducing consumption when Germany needs to save gas, will result in consumers getting a higher bill come March of next year.

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11ct. I can't imagine. Current contracts on check24 are 25ct, down from 44ct last month.

 

I recently purchased a house and I'm anticipating our Grundversorgung sending us some information about our prices. On their website they aren't even accepting new gas contracts at the moment.

 

Whatever it is we'll afford it, and the house has a big Kamine as a second heating source provided we also get our hands on some fire wood. It's an old house so no amount of insulation will make it heatpump efficient.

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On 15/10/2022, 15:48:57, jamiegw said:

11ct. I can't imagine. Current contracts on check24 are 25ct, down from 44ct last month.

 

I recently purchased a house and I'm anticipating our Grundversorgung sending us some information about our prices. On their website they aren't even accepting new gas contracts at the moment.

 

Whatever it is we'll afford it, and the house has a big Kamine as a second heating source provided we also get our hands on some fire wood. It's an old house so no amount of insulation will make it heatpump efficient.


be careful, at for example 25 cents/ kWh a badly isolated house can easily cost you an average of €700/month in gas or more. Nowdays I’m starting to hear - as opposite to just reading in the news- about people having difficulty with the payments. What’s the consumption stated in the energy Ausweis of your house?

 

At least isolate or change  windows,  doors, etc. Check the heater’s efficiency - there are some easy pickings that make a difference.

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An isolated house is one remote and far away from other houses. I think you mean insulated mtbiking ;-)

 

It will be interesting to see what the state does for those who have installed heat pumps and are facing higher electricity prices. No sign of their December bills being paid for at this stage. It would be a bit perverse if the group who made the move to sustainable heating were not given any relief. 

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34 minutes ago, murphaph said:

An isolated house is one remote and far away from other houses. I think you mean insulated mtbiking ;-)

 

It will be interesting to see what the state does for those who have installed heat pumps and are facing higher electricity prices. No sign of their December bills being paid for at this stage. It would be a bit perverse if the group who made the move to sustainable heating were not given any relief. 

 

yep :P

 

The prices for Fernwärme and firewood have also gone through the roof and it is indeed unfair if only gas-consumers are helped.

 

I'm honestly not sure how much of the electricity price increases are artificial - because of the coupling to current gas prices - or here to stay, but I know at least a couple neighbours that due to new contracts are now paying 57 ct/kWh (for a private home) and 72 ct/kWh (for a medical practice). This is double than what I'm paying and at those prices even E-Autos suddenly become a lot less attractive - I'm starting to hear about reservations for electrical cars being cancelled. Anecdotally, a friend of mine who bought a Model Y to sell after one year (and ordered a new one a few months after the first) now owns two and is in dispute as the agreed buyer refused to to take the car / pay up. 

 

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Yes indeed, not just heat pump owners. Basically anyone not on gas may be pretty sour about gas customers having their December bills paid for them if there is no relief for them too. Oil, open fire, pellets, district heating, heat pumps and whatever else can be used to heat a home. The electricity prices are really artificial because of the merit order system, where the most expensively generated electricity (currently gas on the spot market) determines the price of all electricity, even stuff generated in the middle of the night by wind turbines where there is little demand. In a region like Brandenburg, we should be paying buttons for electricity as the state is a net exporter due to low population density and plenty of installed wind power. Instead we are paying a figure based on gas prices set in the Netherlands. If they could break that link then I would be happy enough. Electricity should become cheaper than before the war started if that link is broken and it needs to be broken to make heat pumps as attractive as they need to be to get away from fossil fuels faster.

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9 hours ago, mtbiking said:


be careful, at for example 25 cents/ kWh a badly isolated house can easily cost you an average of €700/month in gas or more. Nowdays I’m starting to hear - as opposite to just reading in the news- about people having difficulty with the payments. What’s the consumption stated in the energy Ausweis of your house?

 

At least isolate or change  windows,  doors, etc. Check the heater’s efficiency - there are some easy pickings that make a difference.

 

The energiebedarfausweis is 221kWh/m2, however I understand that is created by a Schornsteinfeger walking around and looking at stuff rather than someone using equipment to take measurements of the building properties. 

 

The alternative is looking at the previous occupants actual gas usage via their bills, however this also doesn't offer much insight if we don't know their living preferences. E.g. does she keep the house at 18C or 24C. Does she shower for an hour each day, take many baths.

 

That said, the gas boilers for heating and water are both old, no roof insulation, some ceiling insulation on the bottom floor, no wall insulation, double glazing from 2004. Room for improvement, but it's built in 1951 so it may never be heatpump appropriate. There is also a big Kamine already installed.

 

Also the house is in Collinghorst, so it's fairly isolated.

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1 hour ago, jamiegw said:

 

The energiebedarfausweis is 221kWh/m2, however I understand that is created by a Schornsteinfeger walking around and looking at stuff rather than someone using equipment to take measurements of the building properties. 

 

The alternative is looking at the previous occupants actual gas usage via their bills, however this also doesn't offer much insight if we don't know their living preferences. E.g. does she keep the house at 18C or 24C. Does she shower for an hour each day, take many baths.

 

That said, the gas boilers for heating and water are both old, no roof insulation, some ceiling insulation on the bottom floor, no wall insulation, double glazing from 2004. Room for improvement, but it's built in 1951 so it may never be heatpump appropriate. There is also a big Kamine already installed.

 

Also the house is in Collinghorst, so it's fairly isolated.

 

From your description 221kWh/m2 seems realistic. That's 40 MW/year for 180 m2.; approximatelly €830/month for heating at 0.25 ct/kWh. I'd take measures to insolate it sooner rather than later; the investment is worth it.

 

Are you sure you can use the Kamine? Is it a Kachelofen? Older ones are unfortunately not allowed to be used unless you do an expensive retrofitting.

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26 minutes ago, mtbiking said:

 

From your description 221kWh/m2 seems realistic. That's 40 MW/year for 180 m2.; approximatelly €830/month for heating at 0.25 ct/kWh. I'd take measures to insolate it sooner rather than later; the investment is worth it.

 

Are you sure you can use the Kamine? Is it a Kachelofen? Older ones are unfortunately not allowed to be used unless you do an expensive retrofitting.

 

The livable area is about 130sqm. I plan to have the roof insulated internally. And install a new gas boiler with solarthermie. Past that I am not sure.

 

Yeah the Kamine was installed 10 years ago and has the required filters etc. that are required by regulations. Still, I'm not so keen on burning wood.

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1 hour ago, jamiegw said:

I plan to have the roof insulated internally.

 

I believe this alone will help a lot. Good luck!

 

ETA - Bonus. Should keep your house cooler in summer as well.

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On 17/10/2022, 09:36:05, murphaph said:

 Electricity should become cheaper than before the war started if that link is broken and it needs to be broken to make heat pumps as attractive as they need to be to get away from fossil fuels faster.

How do heat pumps help us get away from fossil fuels faster, they might be more efficient but you'll still need O&G to produce it, and the way the Germans are going we'll be burning coal till the cows come home.

 

On 12/10/2022, 20:03:55, AlexCLE said:

Since September I'm now paying nearly 11 cents per kWh, up from 5,5. Is there anything being discussed now about capping increases or any kind of credits from the goverenment? My family's going to be pissed when I lock the thermostats at 18°.:D

 

The real issue is businesses, there is a real risk of Germany de-industrialising, conspiracy theorists believe this is the work of the US to get Germans to buy pricey and profitable LNG from them while at the same time getting all that industry to relocate to the US.  

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