Price query about Samsung mobile phones

80 posts in this topic

32 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Sorry but this is a bunch of nonsense.

 

Apple will sell you all the parts you want, they have nowadays plenty of tutorials on how to fix the stuff.  And the best, you can rent from them the correct tools you need to do your repair correctly.   Including the giant machine you need to open the phone without damaging it.


I think you are living in the past and are not aware of all the changes Apple did when their created their self repair program.

 

https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair

 

 

And the irony is that only Apple does this, and they are still the bad ones in the eyes of the haters.

 

Sorry that service is only available in the USA, it says it will come to other areas but does not detail which or when.

https://www.apple.com/de/newsroom/2022/08/apple-expands-self-service-repair-to-mac-notebooks/  again google source 

I live in the EU, not much good to me... probably will come to  Europe, hope it does

 

Who is it thats taking nonsense.???

 

But again, you have to buy apple parts, because they put software in the phone to detect non apple parts and stop you using it if detects a non-genuine part.if I goto a garage to get my car repaired, I can get third party parts, which can be in some cases much cheaper, I do not have that choice with apple using this service, because it makes them more profit.

 

I think this is a good move by apple, I guess its come about because of the right to repair movement, which you seem to dislike so much.

 

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2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

Sorry that service is only available in the USA, it says it will come to other areas but does not detail which or when.

https://www.apple.com/de/newsroom/2022/08/apple-expands-self-service-repair-to-mac-notebooks/  again google source 

I live in the EU, not much good to me... probably will come to  Europe, hope it does

 

It will come to Europe soon, it was already announced as "later this year".

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

But again, you have to buy apple parts, because they put software in the phone to detect non apple parts and stop you using it if detects a non-genuine part.if I goto a garage to get my car repaired, I can get third party parts, which can be in some cases much cheaper, I do not have that choice with apple using this service, because it makes them more profit.

 

The iPhone's screen is a critical part for the security of the phone.  I am sure you understood this already, but you still want to hate.  Then do not buy an Apple device if security is not your concern.   You are asking to make the iPhone unsecure for everyone so you can put fake screens on the one you do not have.   And somehow you find that a reasonable request.

 

Your analogy with a car is very poor.  Where can I buy safety critical Tesla non original parts?  Our Macbooks at home are full of non-original parts, but I would understand that some parts would be hardware locked if they were a security risk.

 

 

2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

I think this is a good move by apple, I guess its come about because of the right to repair movement, which you seem to dislike so much.

 

 

From where do you get this?  I am a big supporter of the right the repair.    

 

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None of my used smart phones have ever needed repair. Himself has replaced a few batteries that got weak.

 

What's up with all this repair stuff? Can't imagine spending all that money and then needing repairs.

 

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FaceID is actually dangerous for the eyes if manipulated. So let's not get radical and assume some parts are not to be touched.

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One interesting point: there are self-destruction electronics on the consumer market :D

I have a couple of consumer devices which will self-fry the CPU if you attempt to open them. There goes self-repair right...

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4 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

None of my used smart phones have ever needed repair. Himself has replaced a few batteries that got weak.

 

What's up with all this repair stuff? Can't imagine spending all that money and then needing repairs.

 

 

People drop their phones and the screen breaks sometimes.   On top of that, high end phones include wireless charging, which mostly works only through plastic or glass, and since plastic is perceived as cheap, many high end phones have glass on their backs as well.

 

I would assume 99.999% of screen swaps are because the screen was smashed, not because it stopped working.

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21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

It will come to Europe soon, it was already announced as "later this year".

 

I hope it will, in the mean time, just pay apple to do it for you, until apple gets around to it, hey you will happy you got a broken iphone working and apple will be happy because they took some money off you.

21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

 

The iPhone's screen is a critical part for the security of the phone.  I am sure you understood this already, but you still want to hate. 

 

I am not a hater, this thread is about advantages and disadvantages of some mobile phones, I just point out that some people do not like iphone because its such a controlled environment, thats all, if you are happy with that, then buy one. I DO NOT HATE IPHONE or TESLA

21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Then do not buy an Apple device if security is not your concern.   

 

I did some more googling around, I read at least 3 websites that say if you want really good security then its best to use a combination of face-id and PINS/ finger prints, as they give a higher overall level of security ie dont just use face-id if you are worried about security.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/face-fingerprint-passwords-or-pin-whats-the-best-way-to-keep-your-smartphone-secure/

 

You are asking to make the iPhone unsecure for everyone so you can put fake screens on the one you do not have.   And somehow you find that a reasonable request.

 

No I am not and your conclusion is ridiculous, if I do not care so much about security, and I want to buy a third party for my iphone, then it does not make your I phone less secure - because its a different phone - Its just a simple choice, but everyone can come to different conclusions.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Your analogy with a car is very poor.  Where can I buy safety critical Tesla non original parts?  Our Macbooks at home are full of non-original parts, but I would understand that some parts would be hardware locked if they were a security risk.

 

What ?, You pick on currently a small volume car maker like Tesla to prove your point ???, I based it on the vast majority of cars which are not Tesla, Something like 95 % + of cars do have a third party market, where you can buy cheaper parts for cars and fit them yourself or a no name garage

 

21 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

From where do you get this?  I am a big supporter of the right the repair.    

It just because you defend and want to buy products that do not truly let the buyer repair his or her phone.

 

 

27 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

None of my used smart phones have ever needed repair. Himself has replaced a few batteries that got weak.

 

What's up with all this repair stuff? Can't imagine spending all that money and then needing repairs.

 

 

I had one that needed to be repaired by me or my Lab at work, as said before.

 

Also my current phone is a bit broken but I cannot be bothered to fix it and do not want to pay someone else to repair it either and I can put up with its fault, mostly

 

 

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20 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

Two things I dislike about Samsung:

  • The usbc charging port is unusable with any amount of lint in the gap
  • Bixby! Never before has a piece of pushy incompetent software generated such outrage in me

 

We have at the lab cans of compressed air for cleaning out such crap. Aerosol sized with a long straw. I would guess this might fix the issue. I assume you can buy them in an electronics or hardware shop. Might want to see if it works for you.

 

BTW, also hate Bixby, Alexa, Google's one. Annoying spyware.

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

 

What ?, You pick on currently a small volume car maker like Tesla to prove your point ???, I based it on the vast majority of cars which are not Tesla, Something like 95 % + of cars do have a third party market, where you can buy cheaper parts for cars and fit them yourself or a no name garage

 

I chose Tesla because it is the only car brand with highly security implementations I am aware of.   Your analogy was so bad that it was difficult to come up with something.   You are comparing a device with high security with cars that have no security implementations at all.  Your car do not care it is you driving it, it cares you have the key.

 

Again, the screen of the iPhone, like the fingerprint reader home button in the past, is the most critical security part.   Making it secure is reasonable.   Those are the only parts Apple have hardware locked ever.   You can put inside any battery you want, any charging port, any rocking buttons, you can replace capacitors and some other parts in the logic board and it will work, and so on.

 

You are nick picking the only part they decided to lock with a VERY reasonable reason.  And you insist it should not be hardware locked.  Removing the hardware lock make ALL iPhones less secure.

 

 

Quote

 

It just because you defend and want to buy products that do not truly let the buyer repair his or her phone.

 

The right to repair has nothing to do with breaking/removing the security of critical devices.   

 

And then, you are allowed to repair it yourself or in a third party repair service.  You only have to use an original screen. 

 

 

Actually in cars there is plenty of parts that needs to be "programmed" and you have to go and do it at the dealer.  There you go with your poor analogy.

 

And since beginning of the year, Apple does not block your iPhone 13 if your have a non original screen.  And then Apple went all the way to make Face-ID work even if you do not transfer the Face-ID chip when you do a screen swap as it was originally required.  So Apple has been doing as much as possible and more to keep their customers happy.  Haters still gonna hate.

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4 hours ago, Krieg said:

The face-ID reader is integrated in the screen.  So the screen can send anything to the "central processor" if it is hacked.

 

The only way to prevent this is to have only approved screens and to have a hardware lock, your phone will be "attached" to the screen ID and it will only react to the screen it is paired to.

 

If you swap the screen your phone will know the screen you have now does not belong to it.   The solution is to update the phone screen ID lock to the new ID.   Apple is the one doing these updates, they have a database of all phones.   But to be fair, since Apple created the authorized repaired centers, those repair centers have the access to this database and they can make the update as well.

 

So if people are still complaining about this is because either you are using a non-authorized repair center of because they are installing fake (non original) screens, which happens a lot.

 

 

You can't compare the safety of face-ID with a PIN.  Well YOU can, I guess.

 

Apple compromised in the past, fake screens were allowed and you only lost few functionality, like Truetone.   But it seems it was decided security was more important.   Haters will tell you it is just Apple milking the market, but if you actually go and check how much Apple charge for changing a screen and how much the screen costs you will see that Apple is not charging that much, and actually it is difficult for independent repairs to compete with Apple in this.

 

Screen swap on iphone 11 here in Munich was 220 Euros. 

 

I'd be interested how face id actually works. I would guess it produces a map of the user's face, measuring a number of biometric parameters. Then these, or a hash or these, are sent to the security chip. Sender is likely verified via a certificate which is checked at bootup and used in the to check the screen is actually an authorized sender. Without this pairing, I could plug in a fake screen and try to brute force using reasonable guesses. Of course any security mechanism should detect and lock out this attack.

 

However, I would doubt the face id was 'in the screen', and would even expect that this calculation is done on some secure processor. If the screen comes as a package with built in processor(s), then this easily explains why it becomes expensive to replace, as I am not just replacing the screen.

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12 minutes ago, scook17 said:

I'd be interested how face id actually works. I would guess it produces a map of the user's face, measuring a number of biometric parameters.

Face ID uses VCSEL, which are "mini" lasers. I work on that field too. These "mini" lasers project a cloud point in your face and detect the distance of each point, therefore making a 3D reconstruction of your face. This is matched to a previously recorded model of your face, and a match is made.

 

Problem is, these VCSEL (mini lasers) are supposed to have a divergence angle within tight parameters, and if something happens to the optical path, these mini lasers can become focused and damage your eye.

This is not a big problem with smartphones, as you use them very close to your face and the power levels are quite low, and the chance of atmospheric micro bubbles that focus the lasers is very low.

If we're talking about LIDAR VCSEL for autonomous driving... well there my professional opinion is we will start seeing blind birds flying against buildings and young children with dark spots in their eyes...

 

Bear in mind: all these OEMs claim they are safe and Class 1 lasers... they are right, as long if we're talking about lab conditions!

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2 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

I chose Tesla because it is the only car brand with highly security implementations I am aware of.   Your analogy was so bad that it was difficult to come up with something.   You are comparing a device with high security with cars that have no security implementations at all.  Your car do not care it is you driving it, it cares you have the key.

 

I was talking about replacing parts from third party companies and you where talking about security features. 

 

 

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Again, the screen of the iPhone, like the fingerprint reader home button in the past, is the most critical security part.   Making it secure is reasonable.   Those are the only parts Apple have hardware locked ever.   You can put inside any battery you want, any charging port, any rocking buttons, you can replace capacitors and some other parts in the logic board and it will work, and so on.

 

I did some digging, seems from this post ( https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/548261/Is+Face+ID+linked+to+the+motherboard+in+any+way ), the Face ID sensors are directly to the mother board ( Logic board as apple calls it ) as I and now @scook17, have suggested to you, they are not part of the screen unit ( except maybe for support ), which means there is no real reason not to be able re place the original with a third party screen if you want.

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

 

The right to repair has nothing to do with breaking/removing the security of critical devices.   

See above

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And then, you are allowed to repair it yourself or in a third party repair service.  You only have to use an original screen. 

Remember the car example, I can change a VW part for another thired party part if I want, not with an apple

Quote

 

 

Actually in cars there is plenty of parts that needs to be "programmed" and you have to go and do it at the dealer.  There you go with your poor analogy.

 

Actually my car is 13 years old and it has never been re-programmed, to my knowledge !!!

 

Quote

 Haters still gonna hate.

agreed but that not me

 

 

Remember this

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-cellebrite-idUSKCN0WP17J

 

 

There will probably always be a way in to a phone, if they want to do it enough, no matter what security they put on it 

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18 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I did some digging, seems from this post ( https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/548261/Is+Face+ID+linked+to+the+motherboard+in+any+way ), the Face ID sensors are tired directly to the mother board ( Logic board as apple calls it ) as I and now @scook17, have suggested to you, they are not part of the screen unit ( except maybe for support ), which means there is no real reason not to be able re place the original with a third party screen if you want.

 

With almost every cycle of the iPhone it comes some sort of drama like this, specially when big changes are included.   The previous drama was with the iPhone 11 and there were all "solved".  The iPhone 12 did not have any major drama.  The iPhone 13 did have some drama again.  the iPhone 13 was released at the end of September 2021 and by December Apple announced that it "solved" the issues.  And by January all iPhones were updated to and iOS version that made everyone happy.

 

Yes, the "processor" of the Face-ID needed to be originally swapped when you put a new screen, this is not needed anymore.  It was bad because it was extremely difficult to transfer this chip, it needed micro-soldering.   Apple compromised again and found a way to make everything work without having to transfer the chip.

 

Since January 2022 YOUR IPHONE 13 (the one you do not have) WILL WORK IF YOU SWAP THE SCREEN.  Even with a NON ORIGINAL ONE.  IT WILL WORK.  The only downside is that maybe the FaceID will be deactivated if you use a non original screen, but it might as well happen that TouchID will work as well.   And to avoid people ripping you off, the iPhone has somewhere in the settings a place to check if its critical parts are original or not.  

 

And for the iPhone 13 it took only two months to solve all the issues.  This is extremely fast.   

 

I do not understand why you are complaining.  I actually know.  Whenever a new iPhone comes out, the usual Youtubers go and try to find something to complain about it.  All the haters now have in their brains imprinted that new thing to hate.  Apple will fix it quite fast.  But the damage is done.  All the yesterdays of the world are now in 2022 complaining about issues from a phone from 2017 that where fixed long ago.  And they can prove they are correct because Google says so.

 

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4 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

  All the haters now have in their brains imprinted that new thing to hate.  Apple will fix it quite fast.  But the damage is done.  All the yesterdays of the world are now in 2022 complaining about issues from a phone from 2017 that where fixed long ago.  And they can prove they are correct because Google says so.

 

and all the Apple Fan boys will be out to defend the products. All the Kriegers will  be out starting wars, like we all expect them to. Without ever even doing a google search to form an idea, the true Fan boy, does not need to do any research, because he knows he is always right, so whats the point to look stuff up on the internet.

 

Basically, you will locked in and buy an iwatch, ibuds, apple TV, like a caged animal, only then can a true apple fan boy can be happy

 

  

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Wow! you guys infowar has let me know a lot of thing that i didn't know about. 
Don't fight over a gadget.. not worth it :)

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Quote

Basically, you will locked in and buy an iwatch, ibuds, apple TV, like a caged animal, 

Have a cheap Samsung A22 phone, a 13” MacBook w/a 🇩🇪 keyboard, and an iPad. These meet my needs. No 📺.  Don’t have all these other 🍎 gadgets shown above, and thankfully, I don’t feel like a caged animal. 😅 I do appreciate having choices though.

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