Registration without living

20 posts in this topic

A friend of mine (German citizen) is leaving Germany for a year. He will not be employed, no taxes, no insurance. He will deregister at his old address. 

He has a case going on in the courts (not criminal, a civil case) for which he expects some communication to happen during his absence. 

In order for him to receive his letters (court and other letters) at my address, am I allowed to register him at my address?

Or only get his address updated with the bank, court, lawyer without a registration? 
 

I don't want any trouble with 'fake registration' and fines and so on. Please suggest options in case you have dealt with a similar situation. I would like to help him out but not at the cost of trouble to myself or my family. 

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I think it would be illegal for him to register at yours when he doesn't live there or in Germany for that matter.

 

I'm no a lawyer.

 

Maybe you could just put his name on your mailbox to get his mail and he can give it to those who need it.

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1 minute ago, fraufruit said:

Maybe you could just put his name on your mailbox to get his mail and he can give it to those who need it.

Do I need a permission from my landlord or I could just do it? 

 

2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I think it would be illegal for him to register at yours when he doesn't live there or in Germany for that matter.

This is what I fear 

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40 minutes ago, ivn490 said:

A friend of mine (German citizen) is leaving Germany for a year. He will not be employed, no taxes, no insurance. He will deregister at his old address. 

He has a case going on in the courts (not criminal, a civil case) for which he expects some communication to happen during his absence. 

In order for him to receive his letters (court and other letters) at my address, am I allowed to register him at my address?

Or only get his address updated with the bank, court, lawyer without a registration? 
 

I don't want any trouble with 'fake registration' and fines and so on. Please suggest options in case you have dealt with a similar situation. I would like to help him out but not at the cost of trouble to myself or my family. 

 

If you register him at your address, won’t he have to pay health insurance? 

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Why do you need to register your friend at your place? Just put his name next to yours on the mail box.

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I don't see why the landlord needs to get involved so long as he isn't living there. I suppose you could ask if you're allowed to receive someone else's mail but I wouldn't.

 

She who doesn't always do the right thing no matter what you  have been led to believe otherwise.

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37 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

 

If you register him at your address, won’t he have to pay health insurance? 

He is ready to pay his health insurance if allowed to register

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36 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Can he not give his overseas address to the court, etc?  Or am I missing something.

He is not visiting 1 location overseas. Kind of a nomad trip. 

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13 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I don't see why the landlord needs to get involved so long as he isn't living there. I suppose you could ask if you're allowed to receive someone else's mail but I wouldn't.

Seems to be the easiest option. Thank you 

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I remember something about Courts and other government departments only sending mail to your official residental address, so they might not just accept a different address.    Ditto a German  post scanning services  will not work.   

 

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16 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

I remember something about Courts and other government departments only sending mail to your official residental address, so they might not just accept a different address.    Ditto a German  post scanning services  will not work.   

 

I can't imagine german govt offices to communicate with some address or phone outside of germany. that's the job of the german embassy but only for limited services and you have to approach them, not the other way around. 

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Was mache ich mit meiner Post wenn ich für einen längeren Zeitraum unterwegs bin? - Digitale Nomaden Toolbox

 

 

 

ATTENTION: Registration address is not the same postal address
Letters from authorities such as the tax office or courts always go to the registration address and the forwarding request is ignored.
The letters are deemed to have been delivered as soon as they arrive at the registration address.

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4 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Was mache ich mit meiner Post wenn ich für einen längeren Zeitraum unterwegs bin? - Digitale Nomaden Toolbox

 

 

 

ATTENTION: Registration address is not the same postal address
Letters from authorities such as the tax office or courts always go to the registration address and the forwarding request is ignored.
The letters are deemed to have been delivered as soon as they arrive at the registration address.

wow. seriously!!!!

 

and when the person is not registered and has no address? 

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2 hours ago, ivn490 said:

wow. seriously!!!!  and when the person is not registered and has no address? 

This is one of the problems thrown up by the 2015 change in rules for registering.  It works if you can give your new address abroad.  But for nomadic lifestyle, not so easy.  Does your friend have family abroad, in a country that does not do registration of address,. which he could use?  Obviously someone very trustworthy,  And somone who would not mind opening the post, and contacting them about stuff?  Would that work?

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Deutsche Post offers a forwarding service (Nachsendung) for up to a year, for people who move home. He could get his letters forwarded from his former address to yours.

..

Does he have to deregister (abmelden)? If he registers abroad, can he still be registered in Germany (Zweitwohnsitz)? Not sure about that.

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1 hour ago, ivn490 said:

and when the person is not registered and has no address? 

 

This is one of the problems he will face.

 

When he deregisters and doesn't register a new address and states: "I'm leaving the country" this will be updated in the court/government database.

 

How the court/government reacts to that (leaving the country with a civil law suit in progress) is way above my pay grade.

 

I understand that you're trying to help a friend out, but tread carefully.

 

As suggested, he needs to register an address somewhere before he leaves. Maybe he can go to his local Bürgeramt, explain his situation and see what the options available are?

 

Personally, knowing Germany, even if it was my best friend I would make my apologises and run a mile.

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14 hours ago, ivn490 said:

wow. seriously!!!!

 

and when the person is not registered and has no address? 

 

In that case "öffentliche Zustellung" will apply and it will be published at the blackboard of the local courthouse (which will be deemed a substitute for delivery):. At least it used to be in pre-internet days.

Quote

§ 185
Public service

Service may be effected by public notice (public service) if.
    1. the whereabouts of a person are unknown and service on a representative or agent for service is not possible,
    2. in the case of legal persons who are obliged to register a domestic business address with the Commercial Register, service is not possible either at the registered address or at an address entered in the Commercial Register of a person authorized to receive service or at another domestic address known without investigation,
    3. service abroad is not possible or does not promise success, or
    4. service cannot be effected because the place of service is the home of a person who is not subject to jurisdiction under sections 18 to 20 of the Judicature Act.

 

https://dejure.org/gesetze/ZPO/185.html

 

The court will send mail to his lawyer, the Finanzamt to his accountant without a problem, even if he´s not registered in Germany. I doubt they will send it to anyone else and a Nachsendeauftrag will probably be ignored, even set up. Why not simply call the court and inquire about potential solutions?

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On 24/09/2022, 08:16:36, jeba said:

The court will send mail to his lawyer, the Finanzamt to his accountant without a problem

He does have a lawyer, quite unresponsive one  :-( 
No accountat or tax consultant, so he would need an address to receive that info. 

 

On 23/09/2022, 19:24:44, Chelski said:

How the court/government reacts to that (leaving the country with a civil law suit in progress) is way above my pay grade.

Not a serious issue but courts are too slow to put an end to it. been over a year and a half now. 

 

On 23/09/2022, 18:49:13, snowingagain said:

Does your friend have family abroad, in a country that does not do registration of address,. which he could use?

Yes, he could use his parents address abroad for sure. German official communication won't be sent outside of Germany though. 

 

I will ask him to put my address where he needs a local german address. Without registration ofcourse. Hopefully no important communication is missed. 

 

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Hi, not an expert here, just an opinion.

For the bank, phone company, etc he can just update the address and add yours and that is it. Just add his name on the mail box.

For the court, I guess that is his bigger concern, he can request (I understand) that all communications go to his lawyer, so that will be easy.

I hope it helps.

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