Fristlose Kündigung for non-paying of usury rent

[lebenundlieben 0]

Hello everyone.

I really would appreaciate your help and advice, the whole situation is rather stressful to me.

 

Three years ago I moved to Germany for work to a rather big city in the south west. I did not know anyone and I did not speak much German.

Finding an accommodation was hard, no one replied to my letters of interest and I was desperate. I lived in AirBnB for a while but then I found a furnitured flat which was rather expensive. It was a one room flat of 36 m2 with rather simple furniture. I had no other choice than to take it, and when I asked the landlady why it was so expensive, she said that this was a normal rent level in that city. The rents on immobiliescout24.de were indeed quite high and it was also September, a lot of students arrived to study at the local university.

 

After about two years, I discovered that the high rent I was paying was illegal. The city was designated by the land as an area with high accommodation demand, and there was a Mietspiegel that clarified what rent levels were legal. I found it out by chance when I was researching what to do when my landlady did not want to give me Nebenkostenabrechnung for the past year. When I calculated the rent accoring to that Mietspiegel and added an estimated surcharge for the furniture, I saw that she was charging me ca 75% more than was allowed. I was shocked.

 

I sent her a letter, einschrieben, explaining my findings and said that from now on I would pay on the the rent that was legal, I also added some 20% on top of it. I aslo asked her the overpaid rent for the previous two year back, it was around 6000 euro.

 

She did not answer on that letter. Neither did she provide a Nebenkostenabrechnung even though it was long overdue. She sent a screenshot of the last page of it via Whatsapp where it said that I overpaid it and should receive ca 300 euro back. She did not pay me that money though and went underground, she disabled her email.

 

Desperate, I withheld the rent for one month to force her to communicate with me. Nothing happened. I continued paying the reduced rent and withheld Nebenkostenvorauszahlungen as a means of leverage to provide me with the Abrechnung.

 

After another three months I contacted Mietverein where I became a member immediately after I discovered the problem. The lawyer there was rather useless but I managed to get him to write a letter to her with the same requests - give me the Nebenkostenabrechnung and overpaid money back because she violated  §5 WiStg.

 

This time she obviously paid attention. She contacted a lawyer herself and they wrote me back that the rent was not too high because the aparment was furnished. They did not present any calculation or receipts to confirm the worth of the furniture at the time of the contract signing (she never did any übergabe with an inventory list either). 

 

Then they went on with irrelevant things like she needed the rent to be that high to cover her daily expenses etc. She also said she could not pay me money back because she spent it. Apparently she was in early retirement due to her health problems and dependent on that rent.

 

All in all, they said the rent she asked was legal and told me to pay the money that I reduced my rent with the past few months.

 

Then they told me that my landlady indeed sent me a Nebenkostenabrechnung long time ago, which was a lie. They have not presented any proof of it.
They attach the copy of the Abrechnung this time, but a proof for Grundsteuer was missing. They ordered me to pay all the anxiliary costs that I did not pay so far, but did not say anything about her paying me back what she owed me according to the Nebenkostenabrechnung.

 

Again I was stunned. I asked Mietverein's lawyer to reply them and ask for the proof for Grundsteuer amount and a calculation of the cost of the furniture. I estimated the furniture to be worth around 2500 Euro new (even though it was not new), then took 2% of it, as adviced in the case  law, and came to 50 Euro as a surcharge. She charged me 285 Euro.

 

Mietverein's lawyer promised to write to the other side, but he never did. Now, two months later I received a fristlose and ordentliche Kündigung for my rent lease from the landlady on the grounds that I owe her at least two rent amounts. She asked me to surrender the keys and the flat within a week and pay what she thought I owed her.

 

At this point my Mietverein is very passive and their lawyer is hiding from me, not answering my emails or phone calls. I feel that I have to do everything myself. My question is then - how and within what time period do I have to object fristlose Kündigung? What are my chances, can she still evict me?
It feels very unfair because she is in the wrong but it is me who is under threat of being homeless. It is very stressful for me, I am a long sufferer of anxiety and it really tears me apart.

 

Many thanks for your help in advance.

[catjones 1,658]

Have you been looking for alternate apartments these past three years?

[lebenundlieben 0]

A little bit, but I gave up after a while because noone answered my interest letters. This one is not ideal but it is OK, only the high rent is the problem. I also have social phobia, it is not easy for me.

[catjones 1,658]

23 hours ago, lebenundlieben said:

but I gave up after a while because noone answered my interest letters.

 

I would start my search again.  Finding an apartment is easier when you have one.

[LeonG 14,796]

For what it's worth, I had a project in Solingen and stayed at a hotel for a few months since my boss was not willing to pay for an apartment for me.  However, the hotel was also offering furnished apartments in Düsseldorf.  As I recall the rent prices were not too extravagant either.  Doesn't cost anything to ask, Website here:  KEMPE KI-Appartements – Appartements mit Service – wohnen auf Zeit (kempe-boardinghouse.de)

 

[MadAxeMurderer 6,214]

You keep saying nobody answered your letters.

I don't think people have apartment searched via letter since 20 years.

[RenegadeFurther 2,393]

On 9/10/2022, 5:46:06, lebenundlieben said:

 

After about two years, I discovered that the high rent I was paying was illegal.

 

Just so I am not missing anything.

 

You find an apartment, you sign a contract and then after 2 years you decide that you paid too much?

 

 

[LeonG 14,796]

1 hour ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

You keep saying nobody answered your letters.

I don't think people have apartment searched via letter since 20 years.

 

Or ever?  Even 40 yrs. ago when my parents rented out their basement, they'd either pick up a paper and call people who were looking or they'd put in their own ad in the classifieds and have people call them.

 

The OP probably means messages as you write a message through the website where you found the apartment.  However, it's often possible to call and some prefer it.  It's especially not appropriate to write a message when the ad is asking you to call.  I was recently helping a friend who is apartment searching.  We wrote 3 messages including friends number and a bit more info, asking for an appointment to view.  We got 3 replies.  Not saying they were all good, one apartment had already been rented out, one landlord was looking for a different type of tenant, the 3rd got viewed but wasn't all that.

 

[lebenundlieben 0]

7 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

You keep saying nobody answered your letters.

I don't think people have apartment searched via letter since 20 years.

Sorry, I mean email letters of course. Or rather messages of interest through those immobilien-sites.

[lebenundlieben 0]

7 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

Just so I am not missing anything.

 

You find an apartment, you sign a contract and then after 2 years you decide that you paid too much?

 

 

I am sorry, maybe I was not clear in my story.

 

When I signed the rental agreement I had no idea that there was a rental cap in this city and that such thing like rental cap existed in Germany at all. When I complained that the rents were so high in this city on the viewing with my landlady, she said it was normal for that part of Germany.

 

I first discovered there was a rental cap and strict regulations on the rent market when I started investigating what to do when she did not provide me the Nebenkostenabrechnung and started behaving dishonestly. Then I discovered, by reading related material, that there was such thing as rental cap and other rental market regulations. I just assumed that the landlady was honest with me from the start. When I found it out, the advice was to send her a letter about it immediately, otherwise it would be interpreted as if I accepted the illegal rent.

 

I hope it clarified things.

[lebenundlieben 0]

5 hours ago, LeonG said:

 

Or ever?  Even 40 yrs. ago when my parents rented out their basement, they'd either pick up a paper and call people who were looking or they'd put in their own ad in the classifieds and have people call them.

 

The OP probably means messages as you write a message through the website where you found the apartment.  However, it's often possible to call and some prefer it.  It's especially not appropriate to write a message when the ad is asking you to call.  I was recently helping a friend who is apartment searching.  We wrote 3 messages including friends number and a bit more info, asking for an appointment to view.  We got 3 replies.  Not saying they were all good, one apartment had already been rented out, one landlord was looking for a different type of tenant, the 3rd got viewed but wasn't all that.

 

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. My disadvantage at the time of search was that I could speak very limited German, did not understood so well plus had phobia for calling on the phone to unknown people. So I preferred short messages where I presented myself and asked for viewing.

[Krieg 14,919]

If you didn't pay rent you screwed up and the immediate termination you received is justified.   Just because you think you were paying too much does not allow you to stop payments completely.  And not paying your rent for a couple of months is valid reason to cancel your contract.

 

Who told you not to pay?  If it was the Mieterverein then that was really bad advice.  But I doubt they will tell you not to pay.

 

You are now in a crappy situation, I would suggest you talk to your landlord as soon as possible and explain the situation, take responsibility, tell him you were a dummy and didn't know better and you want to fix the situation and you are prepared to pay everything you owe right now if the cancellation is taken back.

[karin_brenig 680]

well - that's bad, but maybe somebody can learn from the story.

 

First of all "Mietpreisbremse" isn't as easy to handle as tenants would hope. Even if your landlord would be in violation of the regulation, you can't simply take matters into your own hands and reduce your payments.

Maybe your German is good enough now to understand this brief article about the topic
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/wissen/mieten/miete-zu-hoch.html

 

To avoid the stressful search for a new rental place, you could try to negotiate with your current landlord. Pay what you owe her, and then take a more organized approach at reducing your rent (if that is even legally possible). Your landlord may be interested in keeping you, since she seems to somehow "depend" on this rental income. If she had to look for a new tenant that would cost her time and money - and be stressful for her too.

 

Renters are (in general) well protected in Germany - it is hard and time consuming for landlords to evict an "unwanted" tenant (I've had to deal with that once, when a nasty tenant cost me over 6.000,- € in lost rent and legal fees to get rid of). So, if you are renting, don't make it too easy (as in grounds for immediate termination) by stopping to pay.

[lebenundlieben 0]

10 hours ago, Krieg said:

If you didn't pay rent you screwed up and the immediate termination you received is justified.   Just because you think you were paying too much does not allow you to stop payments completely.  And not paying your rent for a couple of months is valid reason to cancel your contract.

 

Who told you not to pay?  If it was the Mieterverein then that was really bad advice.  But I doubt they will tell you not to pay.

 

You are now in a crappy situation, I would suggest you talk to your landlord as soon as possible and explain the situation, take responsibility, tell him you were a dummy and didn't know better and you want to fix the situation and you are prepared to pay everything you owe right now if the cancellation is taken back.

I did pay the rent, more specifically the amount that was established in our local Mietspiegel for this kind of apartment, plus 20% on top. 
The landlady though demands the whole amount as it was set in the contract originally, which is 75% higher than the one in Mielespiege and constitutes Mietwucher. As soon as I discovered that the rent she asked was illegal, I sent her a letter where I explained it and said that from that moment I was going to pay her rent in accordance to Mietspiegel, plus 20%.

[lebenundlieben 0]

9 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

well - that's bad, but maybe somebody can learn from the story.

 

First of all "Mietpreisbremse" isn't as easy to handle as tenants would hope. Even if your landlord would be in violation of the regulation, you can't simply take matters into your own hands and reduce your payments.

Maybe your German is good enough now to understand this brief article about the topic
https://www.immobilienscout24.de/wissen/mieten/miete-zu-hoch.html

 

To avoid the stressful search for a new rental place, you could try to negotiate with your current landlord. Pay what you owe her, and then take a more organized approach at reducing your rent (if that is even legally possible). Your landlord may be interested in keeping you, since she seems to somehow "depend" on this rental income. If she had to look for a new tenant that would cost her time and money - and be stressful for her too.

 

Renters are (in general) well protected in Germany - it is hard and time consuming for landlords to evict an "unwanted" tenant (I've had to deal with that once, when a nasty tenant cost me over 6.000,- € in lost rent and legal fees to get rid of). So, if you are renting, don't make it too easy (as in grounds for immediate termination) by stopping to pay.

 

Thank you for your answer. I am so sorry to hear about your tenant problems, it is always good people who have bad luck, it seems. 

 

I did not stop paying, I just started paying the fair amount which I also informed her about in a letter. I suggested her to accept that or suggest another amount. She did not reply. Also did not send me Nebenkostenabrechnung even though I asked her several times. 

 

She only reacted several months later when the lawyer from Mieterverein sent her a letter with requests for nebenkostenabrechnung and overpaid rent back. Then she went to a lawyer helself and replied me. She justified her high rent with the expensive furniture which is a lie because it is not expensive at all. She also provided the nebenkostenabrechnung according to which she owed me some 300 euro.

 

 

[White Rose of Yorkshire 1,088]

In spite of what Karin and Krieg wrote, you still do not seem to understand the seriousness of your situation. No tenant can take the law into their own hands as you have done, it is simply not allowed. You should have gone to a lawyer and done this through the German legal system. You would have likely won your case, probably got some money back  and it would have been official. You have simply reduced your rent payments yourself without a court order which is illegal.

 

As you have given your case to the Mieterverein All correspondence must be done by them, do not interfer. Your landlady should not write to you at all. All letters must be addressed to the Mieterverein. They are experts and know full well what to do. Your landlady will know full well that she should do this. Perhaps she is waiting for you to make another "innocent" mistake so that she has more to prove against you.

 

Make an appointment with the Mieterverein and ask what the latest stand is. They will not be pleased to hear that you have been corresponding with your landlady but you are obliged to inform them and make copies of all letters received from her.

 

The Germans have a saying, being in the right and getting justice are two different pairs of shoes.

 

I hope you now fully understand what a mess you are in and wish you the best of luck.

[lebenundlieben 0]

39 minutes ago, White Rose of Yorkshire said:

In spite of what Karin and Krieg wrote, you still do not seem to understand the seriousness of your situation. No tenant can take the law into their own hands as you have done, it is simply not allowed. You should have gone to a lawyer and done this through the German legal system. You would have likely won your case, probably got some money back  and it would have been official. You have simply reduced your rent payments yourself without a court order which is illegal.

 

As you have given your case to the Mieterverein All correspondence must be done by them, do not interfer. Your landlady should not write to you at all. All letters must be addressed to the Mieterverein. They are experts and know full well what to do. Your landlady will know full well that she should do this. Perhaps she is waiting for you to make another "innocent" mistake so that she has more to prove against you.

 

Make an appointment with the Mieterverein and ask what the latest stand is. They will not be pleased to hear that you have been corresponding with your landlady but you are obliged to inform them and make copies of all letters received from her.

 

The Germans have a saying, being in the right and getting justice are two different pairs of shoes.

 

I hope you now fully understand what a mess you are in and wish you the best of luck.

 

I did not give my case to Mietverein from the start, I tried to contact my landlady in writing myself. Mietverein was not very helpful either. After they received my termination they booked a phone time with the same lawyer as before, the one who let me down, and he cancelled it saying that he will communicate with me via email which he did not do. I was expecting him at least write to me and explain to me what next step he was planning to take. 

 

When he did not email me, I emailed him myself and said that I rather write an objection to temination myself. Then he replied and said that he wanted to wait for them to apply for eviction and then do something - obviously wants to earn money by letting it to go to the court. I rather setlle it out of court but he has an opposite goal. 

[tor 16,868]

He / she still doesn't get it. move along. 

[lebenundlieben 0]

What did I not get? I think someone is making too many assumptions here about other people here.

Of course I know that my situation is serious but it doesn't mean that I am in wrong.

 

There are certain actions that a tenant can by take by himself, completely lawfully, to set a press on a landlord who does not comply with the law.

For example, it is perfectly legal to withhold the advance payment of Nebenkosten if the landlord did not provide the Nebenkostenjahresabrechnung in time. One does not have to always go through the court to get justice, or even have a lawyer for that purpose. The best thing is to settle your problems outside court which is what I am trying to do within the limits of the law. I did not take "law in my hands" more than this law allowed me to.

 

 

[Krieg 14,919]

Ok, if you know better then why are you asking here?

 

P.S.,  You are in the wrong.