How integrated are you?

73 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Berlinexpatnine said:



The governments of the world need to figure out that housing needs to be treated like a commodity, not an appreciating asset. Far more attention needs to be paid to creating affordable housing.

Agreed. Sadly this is not going to happen any time soon.

 

Best first step would be for the politicians to allow, or better encourage, building of residential units where people want them and need them. Like in and near cities with jobs and amenities. In fact, they have been doing exactly the opposite. 

 

The underlying cause is that it wouldn't be politically palatable. The oldies see sitting on their house with garden, whose monetary value exploded because of misguided policies, as a God given right. And the fact that their property value exploded, because indeed of corrupted policies, makes them confusing luck with wisdom, "i was smart in investing in buying my own house, you youngster better work hard and stop moaning".

 

And the youngsters see the lack of housing at affordable price as unavoidable, like it was a God given punishment.

 

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20 hours ago, Gambatte said:

And the fact that their property value exploded, because indeed of corrupted policies, makes them confusing luck with wisdom,

 

Oh absolutely.

 

I remember my F-in-L waffling on about how we shouldn't get a mortgage for a house because he just saved up and got one and that's the better thing to do.

 

Actually he was invalided out of the Foreign Office in Hong Kong with honours and a payout, with which he bought his cottage in Devon about 100 years ago.

So not too similar to today's conditions, really, and he was indeed lucky with his big payout - not everyone is ever in that position.

 

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I live in what in the UK would be called a council flat, in a leafy suburb, cheap and cosy. I do not have to worry about paying for fixing the roof, doing the garden etc usw.

 

Owning a big house can be fun, until you can not climb the stairs, and you do not have the tens of thousands needed to replace the roof after twenty years, and 10k more to renew the heating as required by law, and 10k more to have the enormous trees in the garden made safe. If the damp gets in the house is soon worth much less than the half million you paid for it😕

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To buy or not to buy. That is the question.

 

In my home country the rental market has always been unstable. No reason needed to give notice or raise someone's rent. As a result I'm rather inclined to buy. I've had a condo and two houses in my lifetime. The ones I've sold, I've made a profit. The one I live in now I've certainly had to invest in but the value has gone up so if I sold today I'd make a profit. In two years it'll be paid off. Whatever I would have paid for rent goes in the piggy bank and can be used for maintenance. If it were to get too much for me I can still sell and rent an apartment.

 

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On 23/09/2022, 15:01:54, Fietsrad said:

I live in what in the UK would be called a council flat, in a leafy suburb, cheap and cosy. I do not have to worry about paying for fixing the roof, doing the garden etc usw.

 

Owning a big house can be fun, until you can not climb the stairs, and you do not have the tens of thousands needed to replace the roof after twenty years, and 10k more to renew the heating as required by law, and 10k more to have the enormous trees in the garden made safe. If the damp gets in the house is soon worth much less than the half million you paid for it😕

 

Are you speaking from experience? Do you own a house or a flat? Seems you rent, which means you have a private landlord instead of the bank as your landlord.

 

You pay until you die and get nothing of any value in return. Renting is running on a never ending rat wheel. Buying a place, one day, the rat wheel might stop, hopefully sometime before lifes passed you by.

 

It took me many years to buy here in Germany, and you are stuck for 10 years if you do. Renting I did for years here. Got too comfortable at one place and would have stayed there. But landlords daughter had kids and you are not family, so bye, bye. Why pay someone's else's mortgage? Once you decide to stay, its a suckers game to continue to rent.

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We own a rental property that pays half of our rent. Half of our rent would be the house costs if we owned our flat. Then we would have to pay for everything else. 

 

I don't feel like a sucker. Open your mind a little.

 

Our rental property is worth 4 times what we paid for it. If we want/need to sell it, we don't have to move.

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Our rental property is worth 4 times what we paid for it. 

 

That too. The value tends to go up, not down. My first condo increased by over 60% in 5 years. My first house by almost 70% in 4 years. My current house after 7 years has more than doubled in value.

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On 9/10/2022, 2:50:16, Fietsrad said:

How do people integrate in Germany, what are your experiences? What about joining sports or other clubs?

 

I am no longer in Germany, but I will get some pension when I get 67, that is my last connection to this country. I do not expect to buy anything more than a bucket of beer once a month given the euro depreciation and inflation cost. 

 

Was I integrated? No. 

Was I a burden on the German society? Also no. 

 

I just lived my life, Germans lived theirs, that's it. 

 

I was a member of the Deutsche Alpenverein (DAV), but I bought this membership for mountain insurance and Hütte discounts only. 

 

I was interested in German and Bavarian politics, but not because I was integrated: it is a good idea to follow the local politics anywhere where you live, so I did. 

 

I loved Tatort and German crime movies, I watch them even today. Does that make me integrated? Or beer and Bratwurst? Also no. 

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4 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Our rental property is worth 4 times what we paid for it. If we want/need to sell it, we don't have to move.

On 9/22/2022, 3:34:59, Berlinexpatnine said:


 

But why?

Because of misguided policies by those in charge, that limits the supply. If it's medicine, or food, or whatever hardware, everybody would agree in increasing supply. But if it's housing, there's much interested in limiting it. Shame.

 

And of course there are spectacular examples of the opposite, although rare.

 

My Japanese boss, early 2000s, told me thr value of their family bought 30yr earlier, was HALF what he paid at the time. Nothing special happened, just the market at the time was overinflated.

 

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16 hours ago, scook17 said:

You pay until you die and get nothing of any value in return. Renting is running on a never ending rat wheel. Buying a place, one day, the rat wheel might stop, hopefully sometime before lifes passed you by.

 

I've never bought anywhere; I've always liked the independence of renting too much. I came pretty close once in the UK but ultimately the fact that the mortgage was going to be twice as much as the rent seemed too ridiculous to stomach. I've known more than a few people who bought into the whole britisch "must buy a house" obsession and were basically broke trying to make the repayments. I remember the joke from Henning Wehn: "You English like to be owned by your house".

Of course with hindsight I should have bought somewhere in the 90s when I was in my 20s as the way prices exploded I would have undoubtedly made a load of money for doing nothing. But if you factor out house price inflation then it's not as black and white as you say. Yes at the end of the mortgage you have an asset, but maybe the renter has saved the equivalent amount in the meantime.   

 

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17 hours ago, scook17 said:

You pay until you die and get nothing of any value in return.

 

Pretty sure I won't care when I'm dead. B)

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3 hours ago, Dembo said:

the mortgage was going to be twice as much as the rent seemed too ridiculous to stomach

 

Well yes, that would be ridiculous.

 

We bought our first house here because we lost our Diensthaus, and to keep the kids in their schools, we had to move in a hurry. Here at that time, renting was approx twice the monthly cost of a mortgage.

 

So we bought. Actually outright in the end, which tells you even more about house prices here at the time ;) but at the beginning of the buy/rent decision, it was mortgage or rent we were working off.

 

There are multiple factors involved and those look different for each constellation of geographical region and personal circumstance.

 

I liked renting. It was easy and we had loads of free time.

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7 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Pretty sure I won't care when I'm dead. B)

 

Rofl. Kids, now or later in life.

Retirement with no rent to pay.

I can think of a few reasons to buy if its a similar cost. Low rent vs. mortgage never lasts long term, unless you are lucky enough to get a long term tenancy where they can't kick you out.

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