Train Fine

[yesterday 2,039]

4 hours ago, arsenal21 said:

,

I did not enjoy the trip because of the ticket problems.

 

Weather is pretty irrelevant in an air-conditioned train, but please accept my insincere thanks for your phony good wishes. ;-)

 

 

Did you show a UK passport or a EU one ?

Its my experience that if you show a UK passport that they are a bit more understanding . My young nephew visited me in 2019, he could not be bothered to but a ticket traveling from Nuremburg to Munich, he got caught and the conductor let him off, I guess because he had a UK passport and the inspector tock pity on him. But my nephew, just could not be bothered and was quite happy about it. Right or wrong the inspector  gets to make the decision. Because you are a foreigner it just makes all foreigners look like cheaters i

 

 Personally I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt,  but if the inspector stopped you and your started talking German to him with a German passport and are a bit older, he probably would expect you to know the rules. Sorry impressions count with inspectors, and after all the inspector is just trying to do his job, I generally support the stopping of fare evaders. 

May I ask, as you knew you were travelling from B to C, why did  you not buy an online ticket from B to C from the comfort of your own home the day before ?

Why did you not buy an online ticket from B to C while you were on the train travelling between A to B ? using WIFI or your own mobile data ?

Why did you not buy your ticket from B to C using your own mobile data, when you could not connect to the train WIFI ?

 

As with many business these days many of them are trying to save costs so they try to close ticket machines or not fix the broken ones and expect you to  buy the tickets online before you start. Sorry buts going to more and more that way. As a result of them closing ticket machines, large ques can form at the ticket office, meaning you cannot buy your ticket in time for the train, but that does not mean you can just  get on the train and not pay because the train WIFI is not working. 

 

I thought you could buy a ticket from the conductor ( maybe its changed, maybe not anymore to cut costs ), but you pay more for that ticket as its not a normal service, as you are supposed to have a ticket before you enter the train. 

 

I would imagine they have a way to find your street address from your passport details otherwise why would take your passport details ???. 

 

I am sorry, but even if you act  in what you think is the correct way of doing things, can always go wrong, and you just have to pay up. I have this happen to me - I would advise to pay up and put it down to experience.

[Dembo 525]

https://www.bahn.de/service/ueber-uns/inside-bahn/tipps-tricks/fahrkartenautomat-defekt

 

Seems the same should apply if the Automat on the train is broken and I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest, that ticket machines on the train are only there for you to buy future tickets. They put ticket machines on the train so they can save money putting ticket machines at all the stops.

 

 

[optimista 5,934]

Long story short, the increasing myriad of roolz are applied blindly, robotically and autistically, i.e.

inhumanely. Society in 2022 sucks. I sympathise with the OP. But the advice to only fight those battles you can win comes to mind. It stinks.

[Fietsrad 432]

A conductor never knows if a passenger without a valid ticket is a Mystery Shopper checking how they are doing their job.

 

Ten minutes seems a bit short, if the train is full you might need more than that to find a seat😕

[slammer 889]

7 hours ago, snowingagain said:

I never realised this simple trick for avoiding having a ticket.  Just run away from the controller!  This is going to save people a lot of money.

That is not the point, it wasn´t a running away, it was more a retreat in a huff. last time I checked one did not need a ticket for a bicycle and before you tell me that I should have known, I didn´t, it wasn´t advertised on the Automat and if I were to read the T&C´s, I would be still on the platform.

And if a cycle needs a ticket then I would argue that the woman with a pram the size of a Fiat 500 currently blocking the aisle also needs a ticket along with the oversized Hindenburg family with five giant suitcases would need two tickets each and one for each of their suitcases.

Now the Schaffner do not have the right to take your Ausweis, only the police can do that, they can however detain you until the cops arrive. They can detain you like any other citizen in a citizens arrest, then it is a case of how far do you wish to escalate.

[kiplette 8,802]

On 02/09/2022, 13:52:57, arsenal21 said:

I should wait for the letter.

 

Wait. Wait for the letter and follow the instructions. That's what DB themselves said to you at the info desk. No letter, no payment, of course, but that is totally not your problem.

 

14 hours ago, arsenal21 said:

I think there is an option like this, to pay it under Vorbehalt, this might be the safest option.

 

Your appeal will apparently not work.

Kid#4 was being particularly dozy on a short trip the weekend before the 9€ ticket started in June. and ended up taking 3 or 4 trains on a wild ride around the area because he kept going in the wrong direction with last minute platform changes he didn't notice. Two ticket inspectors just told him where to get off and get the right train, but eventually one decided he was joyriding around Niedersachsen and gave him the 60€ Rundfahrt fine. He phoned a number as asked, and they got him to email them a statement, but his appeal was rejected. 

The politics teacher at school said that they have very tight refund rules on the fines, and essentially unless you can produce the valid ticket which you had in fact bought but couldn't find under your sandwich bag or whatever, then you have to pay.

Kid#4 was sad because he felt as if they were calling him out as a liar, but that is not the point. There is a system, with rules, if your case doesn't fit, you have only a tiny chance of them accepting it.  Right and wrong are not really in the mix.

 

Hence don't pay, just wait for the letter like the info dudes said, and if it never comes, win/win.

 

Fewer machines, no way to pay onboard, or as I once had, a machine onboard selling me an invalid ticket, seemingly just for a laugh, as explained by the ticket inspector as she charged me for the correct ticket (obviously on top of the one I had already been scammed into by the machine) but at least she spared me the fine aspect - all this and the app which crashes etc make using DB a bit of a gamble, which is a shame. 

[Fietsrad 432]

DB had an advertisement about traveling without a ticket and possible invalid excuses:

The dog just ate my ticket

What, is there a charge for train travel?.. etc usw

 

Trying to travel without a ticket can be EXCITING, your palms get wet and your heart rate rises as the conductor appears😕

..

If the ticket machine on the departure station is not usable you can buy a ticket on the train. One time it would only accept coins, no notes. My ticket cost more than 20€. Can you be expected to have enough coins to pay that in your pocket?

[arsenal21 403]

On 3/9/2022, 11:47:21, yesterday said:

 

 

Did you show a UK passport or a EU one ?

Its my experience that if you show a UK passport that they are a bit more understanding . My young nephew visited me in 2019, he could not be bothered to but a ticket traveling from Nuremburg to Munich, he got caught and the conductor let him off, I guess because he had a UK passport and the inspector tock pity on him. But my nephew, just could not be bothered and was quite happy about it. Right or wrong the inspector  gets to make the decision. Because you are a foreigner it just makes all foreigners look like cheaters i

 

 Personally I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt,  but if the inspector stopped you and your started talking German to him with a German passport and are a bit older, he probably would expect you to know the rules. Sorry impressions count with inspectors, and after all the inspector is just trying to do his job, I generally support the stopping of fare evaders. 

May I ask, as you knew you were travelling from B to C, why did  you not buy an online ticket from B to C from the comfort of your own home the day before ?

Why did you not buy an online ticket from B to C while you were on the train travelling between A to B ? using WIFI or your own mobile data ?

Why did you not buy your ticket from B to C using your own mobile data, when you could not connect to the train WIFI ?

 

As with many business these days many of them are trying to save costs so they try to close ticket machines or not fix the broken ones and expect you to  buy the tickets online before you start. Sorry buts going to more and more that way. As a result of them closing ticket machines, large ques can form at the ticket office, meaning you cannot buy your ticket in time for the train, but that does not mean you can just  get on the train and not pay because the train WIFI is not working. 

 

I thought you could buy a ticket from the conductor ( maybe its changed, maybe not anymore to cut costs ), but you pay more for that ticket as its not a normal service, as you are supposed to have a ticket before you enter the train. 

 

I would imagine they have a way to find your street address from your passport details otherwise why would take your passport details ???. 

 

I am sorry, but even if you act  in what you think is the correct way of doing things, can always go wrong, and you just have to pay up. I have this happen to me - I would advise to pay up and put it down to experience.

 

My starting point for the journey was not my home, in fact it was a neighboring country. I assumed that I could buy the ticket from the machine, like you can in Germany. 

 

I assumed then I could buy the ticket from a machine at the second train station, but as explained the two ticket machines I tried only had local tickets.

 

There was no problem with the wifi, the problem was my account was locked with no way to unlock it. If the wifi was not working, then the conductor could have sold me a ticket.

 

But in general, you can't get a ticket from the conductor since 1st Jan 2022, according to the piece of paper they gave me.

 

They took my passport because that is standard procedure. Germans would usually show their id card with their address.

 

I had my anmelde bestaetigung with me and would have shown it if asked. I did not realize the conductor had no specific right to be shown it, as slammer points out above.

 

Here is a summary of current rules, as you seem to be unaware of them.

 

https://www.thelocal.de/20220106/explained-deutsche-bahns-new-ticket-rules-for-2022/

 

Edit - above is for long distance DB travel. Local train companies can have different rules, and these can even vary city to city or between different zones in the same network e.g. buying a ticket on the train may be allowed in one zone but not in the next.

[yesterday 2,039]

16 hours ago, arsenal21 said:

 

My starting point for the journey was not my home, in fact it was a neighboring country. I assumed that I could buy the ticket from the machine, like you can in Germany. 

 

I assumed then I could buy the ticket from a machine at the second train station, but as explained the two ticket machines I tried only had local tickets.

 

There was no problem with the wifi, the problem was my account was locked with no way to unlock it. If the wifi was not working, then the conductor could have sold me a ticket.

 

But in general, you can't get a ticket from the conductor since 1st Jan 2022, according to the piece of paper they gave me.

 

They took my passport because that is standard procedure. Germans would usually show their id card with their address.

 

I had my anmelde bestaetigung with me and would have shown it if asked. I did not realize the conductor had no specific right to be shown it, as slammer points out above.

 

Here is a summary of current rules, as you seem to be unaware of them.

 

https://www.thelocal.de/20220106/explained-deutsche-bahns-new-ticket-rules-for-2022/

 

Edit - above is for long distance DB travel. Local train companies can have different rules, and these can even vary city to city or between different zones in the same network e.g. buying a ticket on the train may be allowed in one zone but not in the next.

 

So its seems like a case of when in Rome ....

 

I fully accept you had a bad spell of luck, 2 ticket machines not working etc, and you feel hard done by, but as with many of my mistakes, it was a combination of me not being prepared and having bad luck, which seems the same for you. If I go to some place I try to take my mobile phone with me, because I know it can get me out of a tricky situation caused either by me other other bad luck things happening.

 

Still not sure why you did not buy a ticket online with your mobile data or on the train WIFI going from A to B, or while staying at A, or the day before.

if its because mobile data is too expensive so you do not buy it, then I recommend https://www.netzclub.net/, they offer 200MB free internet per month ( works in the UK even after BREXIT), and call rates in the EU of 9cent per min, I have a dual SIM card phone, so it just sits there, if I need to google, sure 200M is nothing, but its enough for a bit of Whatsapp or getting on the DB app. Try to prepare yourself when you go anywhere, I know its easy to say, but it is true.

 

You got on the Train, without a ticket and later found out that you could not operate the app, which is kinda bad luck/Not knowing your password or something, knowing this and knowing this would it not have been better to operate the app, before you set off ??  Couple of months ago I went to the UK by plane, I down load the app and used it for check in, but I  checked it many times, to make sure it would work when I wanted it to, because its such an important piece of information.  When I was travelling in the UK, a ticket inspector came and checked my ticket no problem, then he went to the guy opposite me, he showed his ticket to the ticket inspector, who said that ticket is not valid on this train. In the end the German guy, decided to buy another ticket - So he paid twice, because he did not know about different train company rules in the UK, bad luck.

 

I am sorry you had bad luck, but try and use this as a learning experience.

 

As for @Slammer, he did not buy the right ticket either, I have lived in Munich for more than 30 years, and always bought a bicycle ticket, when on the U-Bahn/S-Bahn. When asked by the ticket inspector you are required by law to show it to him and ID, the ticket inspector can call the police and you could be arrested and face the consequence, if you do not. I do not think the inspector is allowed to physically stop you. So you have a good chance to do a runner, but is it right and fair ?

But I would ask you just to think about it, we live in Germany in an honour based paying system, because almost everybody will try to do the right thing, if enough people cheat the system, they will probably change it to a tube system, where its harder to cheat the system. Is that what we really want ??, Just because we failed to understand the system we are using.

 

Thankyou for educating me for the changes within DB, if I had known about these new rules and the  ticket machines were broken, I think I would accepted that I cannot get on to that train.  I would sit down, outside the train  and order a ticket online and waited for the next train, unless I was on my way to an appointment that I could not miss or it was the last train of the day etc. Everybody knows about the rules in Germany, there are lots of them. Lets face it if you were travelling to meet guy D for a beer, is it really worth taking the risk ? or wait another hour.

 

Of course you would have none of these problems if you had ordered your mobile ticket. I know its almost impossible using a train website in a very foreign land, but when in Rome.

 

As said, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[snowingagain 5,465]

7 minutes ago, yesterday said:

When asked by the ticket inspector you are required by law to show it to him and ID, the ticket inspector can call the police and you could be arrested and face the consequence, if you do not. I do not think the inspector is allowed to physically stop you. So you have a good chance to do a runner, but is it right and fair ?

It is actually the other way round.  They do not have the right to see your ID, only the police.  But if you do not show them the are allowed to physically stop you (though not use undue force) until the police arrive.   So, it is easier to show it to them.  Especially as so many tickets explain you need to show ID.  If you do not want to do this, you can buy a paper ticket.

[yesterday 2,039]

5 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

It is actually the other way round.  They do not have the right to see your ID, only the police.  But if you do not show them the are allowed to physically stop you (though not use undue force) until the police arrive.   So, it is easier to show it to them.  Especially as so many tickets explain you need to show ID.  If you do not want to do this, you can buy a paper ticket.

thankyou for the correction - Still disagree, with I will do a runner thinking.

 

I do remember getting a paper ticket to a lake near Munich, and was told by friends that I need ID as well, because it was a multiple person ticket, also I had to sign my 9 euro ticket, lots of rules to remember depending on the situation.

  

[Feierabend 1,146]

One would think Germany was the only place in the world with ticket regulations. I flew with my  mum, then in her eighties, to Krakow, and we bought our tickets  into the city from the bus driver at the airport. We were the only two passengers on board. A couple of stops further, on get 2 ticket inspectors  who demanded a fine because we hadn't stamped the ticket. Fairly obvious that we grey haired foreigners weren't trying to evade the fare. The bus driver said nothing to help, even to confirm that it was a newly issued ticket. It way quite a hefty sum too. Mum  loudly called the wrath of the Pope on their heads and that they should be ashamed of themselves. They did look slightly alarmed ...

[slammer 889]

7 hours ago, yesterday said:

thankyou for the correction - Still disagree, with I will do a runner thinking.

 

I do remember getting a paper ticket to a lake near Munich, and was told by friends that I need ID as well, because it was a multiple person ticket, also I had to sign my 9 euro ticket, lots of rules to remember depending on the situation.

  

See your point, if you know you were in the wrong then it´s a fair cop. If, on the other hand, you are innocent or a genuine mistake and the Schaffner is trying to shaft you, well that is another matter.

[yesterday 2,039]

Also a fair comment, and I am sure arsenal21 also felt he had been robbed 

 

I am not saying I am a saint either, there are times when my behavior, has been less than what I want of myself

 

Thanks god or what ever part of the reason why I am so happy thats its quite hard to get hold of a gun here, because temporary angry is a terrible thing with a gun in your hand 

[arsenal21 403]

I didn't feel I was robbed, though I was naturally annoyed.

 

My questions on here were more to do with the consequences on having received the fine, rather than the rightness/wrongness of receiving the fine, which some people seem to focus on.

 

I still have not received any post from DB.

[travelerworker 116]

1 hour ago, arsenal21 said:

I didn't feel I was robbed, though I was naturally annoyed.

 

My questions on here were more to do with the consequences on having received the fine, rather than the rightness/wrongness of receiving the fine, which some people seem to focus on.

 

I still have not received any post from DB.

Hi, my experience is that they don't care, with the same quality they run trains they run their back offices. I can imagine old computers or even papers with fines registered, loosing data and just being DB.

I was noted a couple of times and never got any fine at home. Also was in a situation similar to yours (I paid the fine on the train) and sent a letter complaining and they basically said I was wrong...when I wasn't.

Anyways just relax, there is no way they will go after every single person that is not paying a ticket...and if they would they are so incompetent that for sure will loose your info and will never get to you.

Good luck!

[optimista 5,934]

I think there s a lot to that last post. Relax.

[teevee 2]

On 9/3/2022, 11:50:45, Dembo said:

https://www.bahn.de/service/ueber-uns/inside-bahn/tipps-tricks/fahrkartenautomat-defekt

 

Seems the same should apply if the Automat on the train is broken and I think it's pretty ridiculous to suggest, that ticket machines on the train are only there for you to buy future tickets. They put ticket machines on the train so they can save money putting ticket machines at all the stops.

 

 

 

Why would you even use those ticket-machines in 2022? 

Just install the Deutsche Bahn app and then you can buy your ticket on the run, without all this stress.

[arsenal21 403]

22 hours ago, teevee said:

Why would you even use those ticket-machines in 2022? 

Just install the Deutsche Bahn app and then you can buy your ticket on the run, without all this stress.

 

Some local train lines don't have tickets available on DB afaik, in which case you would have to use the machine.

 

Personally, I find paper tickets as less stressful anyway, as I don't have to worrry about the battery running out on my paper ticket, or wifi being down, or not remembering the password to my paper ticket, or not having suitable ID etc.

[LeonG 14,855]

6 minutes ago, arsenal21 said:

Personally, I find paper tickets as less stressful anyway, as I don't have to worrry about the battery running out on my paper ticket, or wifi being down, or not remembering the password to my paper ticket, or not having suitable ID etc.

 

Pros and cons.

 

You don't have to worry about a broken ticket machine if you already bought your ticket in the app.

 

You don't need to stand in line to use the app either.

 

You don't have to remember to bring a bank card or money with you if you already bought your ticket.  You do however need photo ID.

 

Buying your ticket in advance tends to be cheaper.

 

It's easier to lose / misplace a paper ticket than a cell phone.

 

You don't need wifi access to show the ticket in the db app. It's already saved from the time you bought it.

 

If your battery gets low, you can stop playing with your phone or even turn it off to preserve it. If you are going somewhere overnight, you have your charger and you can plug in on most trains these days.

 

If you are still for some reason unable to show your app ticket on the train and you get fined, you can challenge the fine by sending them your ticket from your email to prove that you had one.

 

I used to actually buy my tickets on the db website and print them out just in case but I don't bother with that anymore. Now I just have them in the db app as well as my email copy which I could show if the app doesn't work.