Train Fine

[arsenal21 400]

I was travelling from A via B to C with the train. I had the ticket from A to B and was intending to get a ticket at B to get to C. (I actually wanted to buy the direct ticket to C from A, but A was outside Germany and the machine only allowed as far as B).

 

The train from A to B was late and the train from B to C was already on the platform. The train was IC (Intercity).

 

I tried the machines on the platform but they only had local tickets. So I jumped on the train and told the conductor I would buy a ticket on the app.

 

I tried to log onto the app on two devices with the train wifi but it did not connect so the conductor took my passport and gave me a 'Fahrpreisnacherhebung' with 'Preis Weiterfahrt' ca. 65 euro (this corresponds with the price of a ticket afaik) and 'erhoehter Fahrpreis' 60 euro (which I think is a fine or admin fee). The ticket says DB will write to me.

 

Now my passport has my name and date of birth but it does not have my address, and so the piece of paper I got from DB on the train says 'ohne feste Wohnsitz'.

 

So I have a number of questions.

 

1. If I appeal on the basis that I tried to buy a ticket but had connection problems is there a chance that it could be reduced that I just pay the ticket price? Or is the fine/administration fee (erhoeter Fahrpreis) always due? I checked the appeal process online, and it is necessary to give an address, which brings me to the next question.

 

2. If I do nothing and they don't find my address, what happens next? I know that this is technically a straftat, so there could be legal consequences. Could they pass my info to the police? Also, is there a time limit after which the straftat expires i.e. statute of limitations? Also, If all they have is my name and date of birth, how can they be sure that they get the right person, and not someone else with the same name and date of birth?

 

3. If I do nothing and they don't find my address and they pass my info to a debt collection agency, what are the consequences then? Could it end up costing more in that case?

 

I actually went to the DB Info desk and asked if I could pay there and they said they did not have access to the status and they could not process it, I should wait for the letter. But if I wait for the letter and it does not arrive, what do you think is the most likely outcome?

 

I don't mind paying the fare on principle, but I feel the fine is somewhat unjust as I made every effort to get a ticket within the few minutes I had.

 

https://www.db-fahrpreisnacherhebung.de/

I could just pay the full amount at this link, but I would like to avoid paying more than necessary.

[Janx Spirit 11,075]

There is no wriggle room, this is Germany, you are not allowed to board a train without a valid ticket, you do the crime, you pay the fine  

 

Are you registered in Germany? If so I think they do a "Nachforschung beim Einwohnermeldeamt" (inquiry at the Residents' Registration Office) to find you.

[sluzup 249]

Did you give them your correct address or not?  If you did not give them your address, how can you wait for a letter?  If they took the details of your passport, including passport number, then I assume they will use that to get your address, assuming you are registered in Germany.

 

You can of course, try and appeal but I have no idea if you will be successful.  As they probably have your address already, it seems worth a try.

 

[snowingagain 5,201]

I would defintely not ignore it.  Pay online as you suggested,  and do a Widerspruch?  Does that work?   It is a shame the App did not work on the train as you are allowed to do this within the first 10 minutes of getting on Fernverkehr (different rules for local transport has to be before you get on).  

[Acton 1,538]

This seems exttremely unfair. If you have the time to dispute it, I would do so. Wait until you hear something, if ever.

[Dembo 496]

5 hours ago, arsenal21 said:

I tried the machines on the platform but they only had local tickets. So I jumped on the train and told the conductor I would buy a ticket on the app.

 

Did you only try to buy a ticket after the conductor had caught you without one?
 

I think you won't lose anything by trying to appeal. It's certainly understandable that you jump on a train whilst it's there and buy the ticket afterwards.

[snowingagain 5,201]

...

[snowingagain 5,201]

11 minutes ago, Dembo said:

 

Did you only try to buy a ticket after the conductor had caught you without one?
 

I think you won't lose anything by trying to appeal. It's certainly understandable that you jump on a train whilst it's there and buy the ticket afterwards.

You have 10 minutes.  If it does not work you  have to pay the surcharge.  It is risky.  The reasons you were unable to buy one are really difficult to prove.  Otherwise every Schwarzfahrer would say "Oooh, the DB App was not working".

[yesterday 1,979]

Did you enjoy your trip to B and C, hope you had nice weather

 

I would pay it straight away, they caught you 

[snowingagain 5,201]

Somewhat harsh.

[arsenal21 400]

11 hours ago, snowingagain said:

YYYou have 10 minutes.  If it does not work you  have to pay the surcharge.  It is risky.  The reasons you were unable to buy one are really difficult to prove.  Otherwise every Schwarzfahrer would say "Oooh, the DB App was not working".

 

Yes, this is right. The conductor was standing beside me after 9 minutes while I was trying to log in to the app. It was throwing up Captchas and then showing a error code 429.

 

I went on the app later and tried to get a password reset but it does not send so it seems that account is completely locked up and I can't get a new one with the same email address so I created a new account with a different address since then.

 

But all that is neither here nor there, like you said, everyone has a sob story, but if you can't show a ticket, the conductor doesn't really have any discretion.

 

Btw, thanks to everybody who replied.

[arsenal21 400]

15 hours ago, Janx Spirit said:

There is no wriggle room, this is Germany, you are not allowed to board a train without a valid ticket, you do the crime, you pay the fine  

 

Are you registered in Germany? If so I think they do a "Nachforschung beim Einwohnermeldeamt" (inquiry at the Residents' Registration Office) to find you

 

Yes, I'm registered in Germany. But the Einwohneranmeldeamt data is stored only locally, as far as I know there is no centralized database with the information so I would be surprised if they can find it that way.

 

There is also a Foreigner Register

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Register_of_Foreign_Nationals_(Germany)#/languages

 

where my data was entered many years ago, even though they should not have been collecting EU citizens' data. So it would be interesting for me from a data protection point of view to see if they can go that route.

 

I don't think what you say about not being allowed to board a train without a ticket is right, though. I've been on S-Bahns where there is a ticket machine on the train, so it is surely legal in that case.

[arsenal21 400]

13 hours ago, Dembo said:

Did you only try to buy a ticket after the conductor had caught you without one?
 

I think you won't lose anything by trying to appeal. It's certainly understandable that you jump on a train whilst it's there and buy the ticket afterwards.

 

I tried to buy a ticket from my original point of departure, then at the changeover station from 2 machines on the platform, I asked the conductor as I was getting on if he could sell me a ticket and I made several attempts on the app on two devices while on the train.

[arsenal21 400]

17 hours ago, sluzup said:

Did you give them your correct address or not?  If you did not give them your address, how can you wait for a letter?  If they took the details of your passport, including passport number, then I assume they will use that to get your address, assuming you are registered in Germany.

 

You can of course, try and appeal but I have no idea if you will be successful.  As they probably have your address already, it seems worth a try.

 

 

They did not ask for address. I gave them my passport and they took at least my name and date of birth.

 

If they took my passport number, I'm not sure how they could link that to my address. The Auslander Register probably has my passport number from like 2 passports ago, but they could probably just match on my name anyway. 

 

But as I mentioned above, it's not clear whether they have the right to use that database.

[arsenal21 400]

15 hours ago, snowingagain said:

I would defintely not ignore it.  Pay online as you suggested,  and do a Widerspruch?  Does that work?   It is a shame the App did not work on the train as you are allowed to do this within the first 10 minutes of getting on Fernverkehr (different rules for local transport has to be before you get on).  

 

I think there is an option like this, to pay it under Vorbehalt, this might be the safest option.

 

I'm in MDV Mitteldeutschlandverkehr area and local trains here often have machines on board so you can buy a ticket. Is it different in other parts of Germany?

[arsenal21 400]

11 hours ago, yesterday said:

Did you enjoy your trip to B and C, hope you had nice weather

 

I would pay it straight away, they caught you 

 

I did not enjoy the trip because of the ticket problems.

 

Weather is pretty irrelevant in an air-conditioned train, but please accept my insincere thanks for your phony good wishes. ;-)

[jubinjohn 239]

My work colleague, an FCKoeln fan was going home after a game. The ubahn station was full and the ticket punching machine close to his side was broken. He could not get to other other one due to packed station. So he entered the train with unpunched ticket  , and got erwisched immediately . He said that he did not even try to explain because he knew it's of no use. 

What a joke , the IT infrastructure of local transport . It's 2022. 

[slammer 877]

Recently had a run in on the train to Dießen. Got my ticket 4.50 Euros, I had my bicycle with me as the train has space to take cyclists and did not think twice.

Controlleress came round, I showed my ticket and she wanted my bicycles ticket. I´m all: "What, bicycle ticket, Häh! What, since when?" Never knew you needed one, never needed one the last time I took my bicycle. (Ok, that was over 20 years ago)

She is all: "Give me your Ausweiß, it´s a 60 Euro fine"

To which I: "Get bent" They don´t have the mandate to take your Ausweiß, only the police have that. So I got out at the next stop fuming.

[snowingagain 5,201]

2 hours ago, arsenal21 said:

I don't think what you say about not being allowed to board a train without a ticket is right, though. I've been on S-Bahns where there is a ticket machine on the train, so it is surely legal in that case.

You might think so.  But apparently not so.  If you end up ticketless because it is not working it is a problem..   The rules say you have to have ticket before boarding. . They are useful for buying tickets for future trips,

[snowingagain 5,201]

1 hour ago, slammer said:

Recently had a run in on the train to Dießen. Got my ticket 4.50 Euros, I had my bicycle with me as the train has space to take cyclists and did not think twice.  Controlleress came round, I showed my ticket and she wanted my bicycles ticket. I´m all: "What, bicycle ticket, Häh! What, since when?" Never knew you needed one, never needed one the last time I took my bicycle. (Ok, that was over 20 years ago)

She is all: "Give me your Ausweiß, it´s a 60 Euro fine"

To which I: "Get bent" They don´t have the mandate to take your Ausweiß, only the police have that. So I got out at the next stop fuming.

I never realised this simple trick for avoiding having a ticket.  Just run away from the controller!  This is going to save people a lot of money.