Grundsteuerreform

141 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, mtbiking said:

Bayern was straightfoward. My only problem is that I can't find the Finanzamt letter for one one my properties, so I don't know the Aktenzeichnen for it. 

 

 

I had the same, no letter for one apartment.  But the last Grundsteuer bill has the Aktenzeichen on it.

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6 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

 

 

I had the same, no letter for one apartment.  But the last Grundsteuer bill has the Aktenzeichen on it.

 

 

Aha, thanks!

 

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Allegedly the simplified grundsteuer tool now handles shared ownership of common driveways etc. In the end I used Elster. Found it fairly straightforward following the worked examples from Berlin to be honest. I bet an awful lot of people will "forget" these sorts of properties to be honest. From what I'm hearing around here the average tax bill for an EFH on say 1000m² is tripling or quadrupling. I haven't heard anyone saying their tax demand will be less than before. The Gemeinden are obliged not to make a gain from this change though so someone will have to pay less. 

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Allegedly the simplified grundsteuer tool now handles shared ownership of common driveways etc. In the end I used Elster. Found it fairly straightforward following the worked examples from Berlin to be honest. I bet an awful lot of people will "forget" these sorts of properties to be honest. From what I'm hearing around here the average tax bill for an EFH on say 1000m² is tripling or quadrupling. I haven't heard anyone saying their tax demand will be less than before. The Gemeinden are obliged not to make a gain from this change though so someone will have to pay less. 

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Tried the simplified version today morning, awfully slow. Like 10s of seconds delay to click save and continue.  I almost called quits but then it crashed.  I will try again tomorrow. 

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Tried the simplified version today morning, awfully slow. Like 10s of seconds delay to click save and continue.  I almost called quits but then it crashed.  I will try again tomorrow. 

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On Elster, in the Anlage Grundstuck (GW2), in the case of a Gewerbe (TE) in a residential buiding, can anyone confirm that is:

 

6 - Angaben bei Nichtwohngrundstücken zum Sachwert

 

That needs to be filled and: 5 - Angaben bei Wohngrundstücken zum Ertragswert can be skipped?

 

Thanks

 

 

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If no one knowedgable gets back to you I suggest trying variations of filling these fields out:  one or the other, and both.   And see which gets flagged as Fehler when you finish.  And they give suggestions, if a mistake is flagged, as to what the problem(s) could be.   Elster is good at finding these sort of form field clashes.  I started off with 6 Fehlers, and sorted them out with their suggestions.  However process is easier here.

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On 04/10/2022, 16:10:54, snowingagain said:

If no one knowedgable gets back to you I suggest trying variations of filling these fields out:  one or the other, and both.   And see which gets flagged as Fehler when you finish.  And they give suggestions, if a mistake is flagged, as to what the problem(s) could be.   Elster is good at finding these sort of form field clashes.  I started off with 6 Fehlers, and sorted them out with their suggestions.  However process is easier here.

Thanks, I'm trying the Elster forum now. Someone said it is correct, it's is 6 and not 5 for a Teilegentum.

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On Elster, in the Anlage Grundstuck (GW2), in the case of a Gewerbe (TE) in a residential buiding, can anyone confirm that is:

 

6 - Angaben bei Nichtwohngrundstücken zum Sachwert

 

That needs to be filled and: 5 - Angaben bei Wohngrundstücken zum Ertragswert can be skipped?

 

Thanks

 

 

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Does anyone know were to find the "Bruttogrundfläche" of the building?

 

It can not be the value indicated in the land register and I actually get an error. I own 361/10,000 and my unit is 95 m². What I thought was the size of the building in the land register is 801 m², but obviously the math does not add up, it must be much larger if 95 m² is 361/10,000 (2631 m² from a rough calculation).

 

Here is the error:

The sum of the areas belonging to the economic unit indicated in the main form (sum over all parcels from each total area of the parcel in m² multiplied by the percentage of it belonging to the economic unit) is not equal to the sum of the areas of the land indicated in the land annex (proportional areas from the total parcel belonging to the economic unit). On the main form, enter the total area of each parcel on line 10. Then, on line 11 of the main form, enter the percentage of this total parcel area belonging to the economic unit as a fraction (mathematical fraction with numerator and denominator). In line 4 of the land appendix, the sum of all proportional areas of the total parcel belonging to the economic unit (which results from the sum of the respective products total parcel area * percentage belonging to the economic unit), which are assigned to this standard land value, is indicated assigned to the respective standard land value.

 

Screen Shot 2022-10-11 at 09.20.07.png

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AFAIK you don't have to enter the Bruttogrundfläche of the entire building anywhere, at least not for a flat in an apartment building. The Bruttogrundfläche is the figure (or summed figures if the property is built on multiple Flurstücke) given in the Grundbuch for the Flurstück that the building is constructed on and then your 361/10000 share of that figure is the proportion of the land the property is built on that you own.

 

I suspect the error is not the part you have included here as it is entirely plausible what you have entered here. The error is probably in the "land annex" (Anlage Grundstück, Angaben zu Fläche- und Bodenrichwert des (Teil-)Grundstücks) because the 361/10000 * 801 = 28.91 and maybe you haven't entered that there correctly. 

 

It would probably be better posting the error in German as well, so we can see the original meaning before translation.

 

Is the property built on a single or multiple Flurstücke?

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Thanks. I'm getting really confused here sorry! 

The property is built on only one Flurstucke I think.

 

Here is the error:

 

Die Summe der im Hauptvordruck angegebenen, zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehörenden Flächen (Summe über alle Flurstücke aus jeweils gesamte Fläche des Flurstücks in m² multipliziert mit dem davon zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehörenden prozentualen Anteil) entspricht nicht der Summe der in der Anlage Grundstück angegebenen Flächen des Grund und Bodens (anteilige Flächen vom gesamten Flurstück, die zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehören). Auf dem Hauptvordruck ist in Zeile 10 jeweils die gesamte Fläche des Flurstücks anzugeben. In Zeile 11 des Hauptvordrucks wird dann der von dieser gesamten Flurstücksfläche zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehörende Anteil in Prozent als Bruch (mathematischer Bruch mit Zähler und Nenner) angegeben. In der Anlage Grundstück wird in Zeile 4 zugeordnet zum jeweiligen Bodenrichtwert die Summe aller zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehörenden anteiligen Flächen vom gesamten Flurstück (welche sich aus der Summe der jeweiligen Produkte gesamte Flurstücksfläche * davon zur wirtschaftlichen Einheit gehörender prozentualer Anteil ergibt), die diesem Bodenrichtwert zugeordnet sind, angegeben.

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And I think here it might be wrong then, as I put the size of the unit (95) and not 28 as I should have calculated?

Screen Shot 2022-10-11 at 10.17.04.png

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This is for a Teilegentum and I thought I had to provide the Bruttogrundfläche for the whole building as part of this form:

  • Startseite des Formulars
  • Anlage Grundstück (GW2)
  • 6 - Angaben bei Nichtwohngrundstücken zum Sachwert
  • Sie befinden sich hier:Nichtwohngrundstücke zum Sachwert(1. Eintrag)

Screen Shot 2022-10-11 at 10.27.58.png

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1 hour ago, markfusara said:

And I think here it might be wrong then, as I put the size of the unit (95) and not 28 as I should have calculated?

Screen Shot 2022-10-11 at 10.17.04.png

Yes this is incorrect assuming the figures you gave above are correct. You own 361/10000ths of the Grundstück which is ca 29m² assuming there is only one Flurstück of 801m² in the Grundbuch. Thankfully Elster has this check or you'd be doing yourself out of a lot of money ;-)

 

Obviously I can assume no liability for any advice I give here. You must satisfy yourself that the figures you enter are correct :-)

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Ok someone on the Elster forum said that article 8 at this page explains how to "determine the gross floor area for your own partial ownership" using the conversions there:

 

https://datenbank.nwb.de/Dokument/383088/

 

I'm honestly totally confused, as to how to do this and if I need to calculate this only for my unit or for the whole building.. 

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