Census 2022 and property tax return 2022. No, they are NOT the same thing!

[Wulfrun 21,566]

Received notification of Zensus 2022 yesterday, I have an appointment for interview on 24th June

[HH_Sailor 3,180]

Managed the census online yesterday.

Hardest question to answer was the (floor area of the house + 0,25x floor area of terrace)

 

Otherwise 10 minutes at the keyboard...

 

(I'm based in Schleswig Holstein, BTW)

[HEM 10,735]

Beware (which might not be the correct term) - there are two different types of census going the rounds.

 

We also got the "Gebäude- und Wohnungszählung" which we easily did online.  MIL seems to have got the same.

 

[DoubleDTown 384]

I got got the "Gebäude- und Wohnungszählung", as did my in laws.  Interestingly, I got it, not my "Familie" and not my wife who owns 50% of the real estate. Same with the in laws, the form was sent to the man and not the woman.  And alphabetical order of first names doesn't explain it either.  Interesting.  :-)

[mtbiking 1,770]

Are those the letters about doing a Boden Steuererklärung until September or something, that I started receiving? I’m a bit concerned about pitfalls and half minded to ask our tax advisor to do them..🤨

[PandaMunich 16,039]

2 hours ago, mtbiking said:

Are those the letters about doing a Boden Steuererklärung until September or something, that I started receiving? I’m a bit concerned about pitfalls and half minded to ask our tax advisor to do them..🤨

No, this thread is about the letter for the census (Zensus), which has a QR code on it. If you haven't received that QR code letter yet, don't worry, you will, they are being sent out staggered.

 

The census is done every 10 years, while the property tax return will happen every 7 years from now on (the ladt time it was done was 1964 in the western Bundesländer and 1935 in the eastern Bundesländer).

 

It is just a coincidence that both happen to fall into the same year, 2022.

The census had been planned to take place in 2021, but it was pushed a year because of Corona.

 

The census is done by the State Offices for Statistics and asks for data which you will also need for the property tax return, e.g. the living space of your flat/house: https://www-statistik-bayern-de.translate.goog/presse/mitteilungen/2022/pm124/index.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

But the property tax return (Grundsteuererklärung) will ask for additional details and will have to be filed at the Finanzamt (tax department), between 1. July and 31. October 2022.

They would prefer you to file electronically via the Finanzamt's ELSTER web portal, but there will also be paper forms. The real paper forms for the property tax return will only be published on 1. July 2022, but you can get a first look at the planned forms for Bavaria here: https://www.verkuendung-bayern.de/files/baymbl/2022/162/baymbl-2022-162.pdf

The property tax return differs by the Bundesland that the property is in. The version for Bavarian real estate is one of the easiest to complete. Enjoy 

[fraufruit 40,256]

12 hours ago, DoubleDTown said:

Interestingly, I got it, not my "Familie" and not my wife who owns 50% of the real estate. Same with the in laws, the form was sent to the man and not the woman.

 

Same here.

[bimohan 7]

I am a student in Germany, I do not have any property. So, my question, why should I answer zensus2022 and give them my information? Is this compulsory or optional? 

[PandaMunich 16,039]

2 hours ago, bimohan said:

I am a student in Germany, I do not have any property. So, my question, why should I answer zensus2022 and give them my information? Is this compulsory or optional? 

It's compulsory, please read this article, it states the fine you would get if you don't comply: https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/politik/die-angst-vor-kriminellen-daran-erkennen-sie-echte-zensus-interviewer-faq-zur-volkszaehlung-2022/28325940.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[snowingagain 4,564]

On 19.5.2022, 22:02:41, PandaMunich said:

 

But the property tax return (Grundsteuererklärung) will ask for additional details and will have to be filed at the Finanzamt (tax department), between 1. July and 31. October 2022.

They would prefer you to file electronically via the Finanzamt's ELSTER web portal, but there will also be paper forms. The real paper forms for the property tax return will only be published on 1. July 2022, but you can get a first look at the planned forms for Bavaria here: https://www.verkuendung-bayern.de/files/baymbl/2022/162/baymbl-2022-162.pdf

 

BW say they are only giving out the paper forms in "very exceptional circumstances".  For those with no internet, etc.   And saying you can even submit it via someone else's Elster.   The paper form was really easy.  

[snowingagain 4,564]

On 19.5.2022, 21:32:25, mtbiking said:

Are those the letters about doing a Boden Steuererklärung until September or something, that I started receiving? I’m a bit concerned about pitfalls and half minded to ask our tax advisor to do them.. 🤨

 

I do not want to pay the accountant any more.  It was a very and fairly short simple paper form last time,  all the info was easy to get from the purchase document.   So, I will try and set up an Elster account and see what it is like.  I am crap at this sort of thing.  But will report back on how it goes.

[PandaMunich 16,039]

6 hours ago, snowingagain said:

It was a very and fairly short simple paper form last time,  all the info was easy to get from the purchase document. 

Errmm, I don't think you have ever done a property tax return...

Nobody has, not with the last time it was done being 1964...

 

What you did last time, in 2011, was the census.

Again: even though we are all posting (wrongly) in this census thread, the census is not the property tax return!

With the way this thread has been hijacked by property tax return questions, I'm thinking about changing the thread title to reflect this.

 

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Anyway, you're in luck, Baden-Württemberg has the easiest property tax return version of all Bundesländer, they opted for the "modifiziertes Bodenwertmodell".

You only need to fill in details regarding the land that your building is on, not also about the house itself.

You will only need: https://fm.baden-wuerttemberg.de/de/service/presse-und-oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/pressemitteilung/pid/umsetzung-der-grundsteuer-wird-konkreter/

1. Einheitswert-Aktenzeichen, i.e. the "number" of that piece of land, which will be sent to you in the letter that every BW property owner will get. It is also stated in the Einheitswert-Bescheid that you got after you bought the flat/house.
2. area of the land that belongs to you, in m²
3. Bodenrichtwert, that's how much they think a m² of land is worth in your street. They will give you free access to a website where you can look it up, it will be available from 1. July 2022 here: https://www.gutachterausschuesse-bw.de/borisbw/

If you now think that the state of Baden-Württemberg already has all the above details and are asking yourself: Why then are they asking me to file a tax return?

Well, they don't have all these details in one database, but in several databases.

So they are basically misusing the population to work as unpaid data entry drones for them, instead of paying some software engineers to write them a program to query the data from all these databases and create a new database for property tax.

 

Starting with 2025, the Grundsteuer (= property tax) you have to pay every year will be based on what you entered into your 2022 property tax return.

So it will take the Finanzamt over 2 years to actually "use" the data you are providing to them this year.

[bimohan 7]

10 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

It's compulsory, please read this article, it states the fine you would get if you don't comply: https://www-tagesspiegel-de.translate.goog/politik/die-angst-vor-kriminellen-daran-erkennen-sie-echte-zensus-interviewer-faq-zur-volkszaehlung-2022/28325940.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

aha! I read that article. Okay, if it helps the state, then I have no problem doing it. 

[snowingagain 4,564]

38 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

Errmm, I don't think you have ever done a property tax return...

Nobody has, not with the last time it was done being 1964...

Ha.  Now I am confused.  Because the form I had to fill out was all about size of property, Nützflache and such.   And whether any rooms (such as the cellar, attic) had been upgraded.  And asked no questions about who was living here.  Etc.   Does the census here ask those things?  Because in the UK it is about the people living in the property.

 

Many thanks for the advice on how to get info for the property tax return.

[PandaMunich 16,039]

1 hour ago, snowingagain said:

Ha.  Now I am confused.  Because the form I had to fill out was all about size of property, Nützflache and such.   And whether any rooms (such as the cellar, attic) had been upgraded.  And asked no questions about who was living here.  Etc.   Does the census here ask those things?  Because in the UK it is about the people living in the property.

That will have been the census 2011 questions.

The German state already knows who is living there, after all, everybody has to register their address in Germany, while in the UK they don't.

 

Census:

The "property" questionnaire of the census 2022 is the "Gebäude- und Wohnungszählung", you can find screenshots of the questionnaire here (in German): https://www.zensus2022.de/DE/Wer-wird-befragt/Musterfragebogen_Uebersicht/_inhalt.html

 

You do not need an Elster certificate to fill in the online census 2022 questionnaire, you just type in the URL of the the website stated in the census letter and enter your login details that are also printed in letter (after inputting your login details, you can change the questionnaire language to English): https://www.zensus2022.de/EN/Home/_node.html

Or you simply scan the QR code printed on the letter with your smartphone.

And then you answer the questions.

 

*****************************************************************************

 

Property tax return:

You only need an Elster certificate to file your property tax return (= Grundsteuererklärung) since the property tax return for Baden-Württemberg can only be filed via Elster, since Baden-Württemberg chose not to use the "Bundesmodell" (= federal model how to calculate the value of your property).

 

People who own property in a Bundesland that uses the "Bundesmodell":

• Berlin
• Brandenburg
• Bremen
• Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
• Nordrhein-Westfalen
• Rheinland-Pfalz
• Saarland
• Sachsen
• Sachsen-Anhalt
• Schleswig-Holstein
• Thüringen

will be able to file the property tax return without an Elster certificate, on this official website, starting with 1. July 2022: https://www.grundsteuererklaerung-fuer-privateigentum.de/

 

[wien4ever 435]

Thanks to everyone for the info. I just checked the example calculations for Baden Württemberg and the BorisBW site and my property tax will be doubled from 100euros/year to 200 euros/year.  Not terrible, since it was pretty low to begin with, but still it's a doubling (!).

 

I wonder if after 2025 they will keep raising it.

[Rushrush 255]

23 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Errmm, I don't think you have ever done a property tax return...

Nobody has, not with the last time it was done being 1964...

 

What you did last time, in 2011, was the census.

Again: even though we are all posting (wrongly) in this census thread, the census is not the property tax return!

With the way this thread has been hijacked by property tax return questions, I'm thinking about changing the thread title to reflect this.

 

**********************************************************************************************************

 

 

Yes Panda Munich nicely explained it to me in this thread

 

https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/391869-property-tax-reform-and-new-tax-returns/?do=findComment&comment=3923929

[fraufruit 40,256]

I got my very own census form. Himself filled it in online.

 

As it turns out, my name was on the Grundsteurer form only it is my former name that must still be in the Grundbuch for our property. Didn't someone mention that the databases don't speak to each other earlier? Anyway, we'll have to sort that out. 

[HH_Sailor 3,180]

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

As it turns out, my name was on the Grundsteurer form only it is my former name that must still be in the Grundbuch for our property. Didn't someone mention that the databases don't speak to each other earlier? 

 

Of course they don't talk to each other!

This is Germany....

 

What with the Data Protection lobby, 16 different Bundesländer and their regional rules

and the fear of Big Brother from the 1930's there's just no way that the digital revolution can take hold.

 

[maxie 547]

On 19.5.2022, 20:52:54, DoubleDTown said:

the form was sent to the man and not the woman

They might have used the info from the Finanzamt. All tax documents list the husband first. 

My husband had to do the census and the request for the Grundsteuerreform was addressed only to him even though they listed both our names in the salutation of the letter.