Driving permit as opposed to driving licence

[jeba 4,295]

Is it correct to assume that the German term "Fahrerlaubnis" means "driving permit" and "Führerschein" means "driving licence"? Or is driving licence used interchangeably for both?

[snowingagain 5,010]

The Führerschein is the physical proof that you have Fahrerlaubnis?

[jeba 4,295]

19 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

The Führerschein is the physical proof that you have Fahrerlaubnis?

Exactly. It´s just the document. Driving without it is only a minor offence which will cost you a small fine, if any. Driving without a Fahrerlaubnis is quite  a different game.

[yourkeau 7,719]

46 minutes ago, jeba said:

Is it correct to assume that the German term "Fahrerlaubnis" means "driving permit" and "Führerschein" means "driving licence"? Or is driving licence used interchangeably for both?

Depends on the country, I guess. 

 

In Israel, "driving permit" is used interchangeably for both. Also, there are no separate crimes for driving with an expired plastic card and driving without having permission to do so: it is legally the same crime, just courts give smaller fines in the former case. Also, the government now allows driving without any plastic license at all, you just need any other government-issued ID. 

 

Now the thing I don't understand is I have a lifetime Fahrerlaubnis for Germany and a German Führerschein which expires in 2033. But now that I am no longer a resident I can't renew the German license. Why? 

[fraufruit 41,609]

Because you aren't a resident, as you stated.

 

I thought that a license was one thing and a permit allows one to drive things other than cars - big rigs, etc.

 

In any case, insurance won't pay out if you have an accident with no license. 

[Feierabend 1,126]

In my understanding they are legally different terms. The Führerschein is the documentary proof  of your Fahrerlaubnis, ie your legal right to drive and obtain the document by virtue of driver training, passing a recognised test etc 

If you haven't got your  Führerschein with you when asked to produce it, you get a fine and keep your licence. For more serious offences eg drink driving, your Fahrerlaubnis may be rescinded along with your document being confiscated, and only reinstated after certain conditions are fulfilled.

If you drive without the legal right to, ie with no Fahrerlaubnis you may meet severe penalties such as imprisonment.

 

[yourkeau 7,719]

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Because you aren't a resident, as you stated.

 

My question is why I must be a resident? Unlike in other countries (USA, Canada, Israel) German DL is neither a legal ID nor it gives any residency rights. Since I did a full set of exams in Germany I must be entitled to have a DL from them. A University degree does not expire when one ceases to be a resident, why does the DL?

 

Another example: my orthopedist has a German Approbation, he worked in Germany for a while. Now he is no longer a resident, but his Germany doctor's license is still valid. He can return to Germany at any time and start working immediately (he has EU citizenship).

 

1 hour ago, Feierabend said:

your document being confiscated

One minor correction: Germany can legally confiscate only Germany-issued documents. That does not make it legal to drive on any other foreign-issued license, of course. But they cannot confiscate it.  

 

 

[PandaMunich 16,489]

2 hours ago, yourkeau said:

My question is why I must be a resident? 

Actually, if I read §25 (1) Nr. 3 Fahrerlaubnis-Verordnung correctly, you don't, since you live in a non-EU/non-EEA country: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/fev_2010/__25.html

Please also read: https://www.deutsche-im-ausland.org/nc/news/news-details/fuehrerscheinumtausch-bei-wohnsitz-im-ausland.html

[yourkeau 7,719]

Thanks, PandaMunich, I stand corrected. 

[fraufruit 41,609]

5 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Thanks, PandaMunich, I stand corrected. 

 

Me, too!

[jeba 4,295]

4 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Also, there are no separate crimes for driving with an expired plastic card and driving without having permission to do so: it is legally the same crime, j

That´s definitely not the case in Germany. Not having your "Führerschein" with you (e.g. because you forgot it at home) is merely an "Ordnungswidrigkeit", whereas driving without "Fahrerlaubnis", i.e.  without permission to do so, can land you in prison. Once I forgot my "Führerschein" at home and was caught. The police followed me to my home where I showed it to them and that was it. Not even a fine, just a bit of finger-waiving.

But back to my question: what are the respective terms for Führerschein and Fahrerlaubnis?  According to https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/driving-licence?q=driving+licence, "driving licence" seems to refer to the document as such. However, entering "Fahrerlaubnis" in a dictionary results in driving licence as well. Should the English language really not discriminate between the two?

[BethAnnBitt 2,841]

59 minutes ago, jeba said:

But back to my question: what are the respective terms for Führerschein and Fahrerlaubnis?  According to https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/driving-licence?q=driving+licence, "driving licence" seems to refer to the document as such. However, entering "Fahrerlaubnis" in a dictionary results in driving licence as well. Should the English language really not discriminate between the two?

In the US we use the terms “suspension” and “revocation” to discuss these matters.  I have no idea what they use in Canada, Australia, … because the English language is not “one size fits all”.

https://driversed.com/trending/revocation-license-how-does-drivers-license-get-revoked

[tor 16,678]

In America, you get a permit at 16, or whenever, and you can drive only  if there is a adult in the front seat who has a license. 

I believe there are also restrictions about driving at night and in bad weather, etc, but I am not sure. 

 

Driving without a license, as in left it at home, is different than driving without a valid license. 

 

So as far as I know, they revoke your Driver's license if you fuck up. 

[BethAnnBitt 2,841]

38 minutes ago, tor said:

In America, you get a permit at 16, or whenever, and you can drive only  if there is a adult in the front seat who has a license. 

That varies by state.  I got my learner’s permit when I was 14, as is still the rule in many places.  Got my license at 15.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/driving-age-by-state

 

[yourkeau 7,719]

22 hours ago, jeba said:

But back to my question: what are the respective terms for Führerschein and Fahrerlaubnis?  According to https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/driving-licence?q=driving+licence, "driving licence" seems to refer to the document as such. However, entering "Fahrerlaubnis" in a dictionary results in driving licence as well. Should the English language really not discriminate between the two?

Driving license card, I guess.

 

The Swiss term Führerausweis has some WWII smell.