Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

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46 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Billionaire Tesla CEO Elon Musk is once again promising fully autonomous cars in the near future.

  • "My personal guess is...this year," he told investors during the company's Q4 2021 earnings call.
  • Musk has been promising as much since at least 2015.

Lets face it, all the developers are promising 2 years - No one has delivered so far, maybe one day they will, I think it will be a long time coming. The training algorithms are ok for some tasks - But a human can come to a situation and figure out what to do, kinda by its self. Thats what you need a computer to do, if you want a safe system, you cannot train for every situation, you need something that humans can do.

Your "joke" is about to get old and meaningless.

It's iterative development, so setting deadlines is almost impossible. Still, the last 12 months of beta testing show something extremely good, and other companies have been making similar progress. You already have Teslas doing SF-LA 100% autonomous. Or going around SF without interventions. Sure, still fails in some places, but every 2 weeks a new beta comes out and gets better. They have 100.000 testers on the road and until now, only a very minor accident was reported. Statistically speaking, a 100.000 drivers should have killed many people by now.

 

46 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Computers follow lines of code very quickly, but the thinking part come down to an instruction of

 

'IF this or that and something else  then do that'   thats basically what a computer does or thinks.

You need to brush up your knowledge. That's NOT how self driving computers work.

 

46 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

Sure small improvements will be made, driving a taxi in a small area, that is mapped very well only in daylight and in good weather. But I do not want that, I want tp get in and say take me saalbach hinter glemm, then it should drive me there, while I sleep in the back. That is self driving Level 5. It will be 10's of years  to get there at this pace.

You're in for a surprise.

 

46 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Lets not forget, that poor women pushing her bike over a road at night, which that self driving car ran over and killed her. I live in Munich, I heard these systems will be tested here in the future, if so, I want to be able to loggin to an app which can tell me where mudder cars are, so I can aviod the area.

Again, more FUD. First, it was a project that no longer is running because it was crap. Second, it was 4 years ago. Much has changed, except your mind.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Your "joke" is about to get old and meaningless.

It's iterative development, so setting deadlines is almost impossible

 

So why does Musk set the deadlines, if its ' almost impossible'

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

 

You need to brush up your knowledge. That's NOT how self driving computers work.

 

It does not matter what computer language you use, att he end of the day the computer runs the code in machine code format, which to make a decision  means, testing a bit or condition or number. 

 

It always boils down to several thousand instructions, like this

 

LOOP

     TST.B (A1)+         ;Is A1's byte zero? (Advance after testing)
     DBEQ D0,LOOP        ;If not zero AND D0 is still >= 0, loop back.

to make a test or decision

 

You need to get out of the high level programming instructions sometimes and learn how computers process the instructions

 

Training a AI machine, just means you feed the machine with lots of examples or what to do in a certain situation, but if find a situation that the computer has not been trained with, then it has noway to figure out what to do, because it not a human.

 

Sure you can drive a Tesla hundreds of miles without a problem, until the road changes or in Munich you get snow on the road and it cannot see the road markings, then it needs to think how to handle it, before you remove the steering wheel.

 

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

You're in for a surprise.

 

I would very much prefer self driving to work, its just I do not think it will work well enough from what I have seen so far.

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

. First, it was a project that no longer is running because it was crap. Second, it was 4 years ago. Much has changed, except your mind.

 

And who is to say, that Tesla will not end up with a useless peice of software that kills people, we ( you and I ) have to wait and see.

 

Musk has been pushing this dead donkey for 7 or 8 years now, as you say, who knows how long it will take. Another 2 years like Musk says, but he has been wrong on the time projection or another 30 years ...    Only time will tell, and I would be quite happy to be wrong, if I can get a self driving car in the next couple of years - Its jst I do not think so.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

So why does Musk set the deadlines, if its ' almost impossible'

For those following it closely, it was bullshit. I only believed it in October 2020, when I saw the first serious beta.

 

10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

 

It does not matter what computer language you use, att he end of the day the computer runs the code in machine code format, which to make a decision  means, testing a bit or condition or number.

 

You need to get out of the high level programming instructions sometimes and learn how computers process the instructions

 

Training a AI machine, just means you feed the machine with lots of examples or what to do in a certain situation, but if find a situation that the computer has not been trained with, then it has noway to figure out what to do, because it not a human.

It's unrelated with programming language. And the AI of course benefits of having context of an object, but they also train to detect unclassified solid objects. So even if it can't tell what it is, it knows it's there.

 

10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

Sure you can drive a Tesla hundreds of miles without a problem, until the road changes or in Munich you get snow on the road and it cannot see the road markings, then it needs to think how to handle it, before you remove the steering wheel.

Tesla does not need any marks on the road to drive. Even my Autopilot doesn't need them. I'ts impressive, but it works very well by infering a road marking just by the cars parked on the right. There are thousands of videos of FSD driving with no road marks.

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33 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

For those following it closely, it was bullshit. I only believed it in October 2020, when I saw the first serious beta.

 

We agree!!!, there is a lot BS around self driving cars, only the future will tell us, if we are again being feed BS now or it actually works

 

Quote

It's unrelated with programming language. And the AI of course benefits of having context of an object, but they also train to detect unclassified solid objects. So even if it can't tell what it is, it knows it's there.

 

We still should remember, that poor woman who was killed, I remember that auto drive system could not identify if the object in front was a person or a bike, until about 2 seconds before it hit her, as it accounted for objects it reconciled, everything else was not considered to be a problem. I do hope that such basic checks are well tested away from the road system. 

 

Sure but all computer decisions are made through a simple if statement, there can of course been many million if statements to come to a usable decision

 

 

Quote

Tesla does not need any marks on the road to drive. Even my Autopilot doesn't need them. I'ts impressive, but it works very well by infering a road marking just by the cars parked on the right. There are thousands of videos of FSD driving with no road marks.

 

I am sure there will be a lot of video;s around showing a Tesla driving on a road without markings, but how many show it doing it at night with lots or rain and snow coming down ??

Remember Level 5 means I can drink beer in the back of the car and have no steering wheel to handle difficult situations

 

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7 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

being a programmer myself, I can tell you with certainty: I would never sit in a car operated solely by a computer program.

Being a human driver myself, I can tell you with certainty: I would never sit in a car operated solely by a human driver other than myself.

 

Sorry, I don't follow your logic. 99% of accidents are simple Vorfahrt violations easily solvable by computer programs.

 

A computer program will not start the deadly overtake maneuver on a 2 lane road when there is a truck driving on the opposite lane. The program will calculate that they do not have enough time to complete the maneuver. A stupid human will do it anyway and die.

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15 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

But an irresponsible driver is ok? When computers show better score than humans, you will change your mind.

By the way, computers do land airplanes from time to time. Do you jump out?

 

you're not getting my point.

 

Computer assisted driving/flying/working... is fine by me. Just solely computer operated - without a human pilot able to intervene - is not.

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1 hour ago, karin_brenig said:

you're not getting my point.

 

Computer assisted driving/flying/working... is fine by me. Just solely computer operated - without a human pilot able to intervene - is not.

 

In Nuremberg the U Bahn trains (most of them) have no drivers.

 

Should I stop using the U Bahn?

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14 hours ago, yesterday said:

We still should remember, that poor woman who was killed, I remember that auto drive system could not identify if the object in front was a person or a bike, until about 2 seconds before it hit her, as it accounted for objects it reconciled, everything else was not considered to be a problem. I do hope that such basic checks are well tested away from the road system. 

That was a bad project from a bad team, and 4 years ago. Things do improve over time. That's the problem with reasoning from people like you. You see it failing once, you assume it will always fail.

You don't need to know if it's a person or a bike to avoid an obstacle, but that car didn't even had emergency breaking code running.

 

14 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

Sure but all computer decisions are made through a simple if statement, there can of course been many million if statements to come to a usable decision

In the most advanced systems there is no if statement. The output is speed and direction.

 

14 hours ago, yesterday said:

I am sure there will be a lot of video;s around showing a Tesla driving on a road without markings, but how many show it doing it at night with lots or rain and snow coming down ??

Remember Level 5 means I can drink beer in the back of the car and have no steering wheel to handle difficult situations

Raining a lot at night is not such a difficult task and my simplistic autopilot can do it. Sometimes it's just easier for computers than for humans.

Snow is harder, but not impossible. I think nobody is focusing too much on snow yet, one of the reasons is you need a completely different traction control handling.

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1 hour ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

In Nuremberg the U Bahn trains (most of them) have no drivers.

 

Should I stop using the U Bahn?

 

Only if the U-Bahn trains in Nuremberg are able to overtake slower traffic using the track of trains coming in the other direction.:)

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2 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

In Nuremberg the U Bahn trains (most of them) have no drivers.

 

Should I stop using the U Bahn?

Pretty hard to change lanes, with or without signalling, in a U_Bahn. I once saw a car driver in SF berating a streetcar driver for not steering around his illegally parked car. SFB

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"Can't you get off the tracks so I can get by?!" shouted the tram driver.

 

"Indeed I can, but you can not" smirked the motorist.

..

Habeck just announced his energy-saving campaign AGAIN, he suggests setting the aircon temperature higher. Wonder if that could cause problems, heart attacks and so? Perhaps the aircon could be switched off, and the windows opened.

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