Posted 6 February 5 hours ago, Gambatte said: Wow these are big numbers. We use 9000 kWh/yr for gas heating, but our house is 117qm and built 2019. Mate of mine lives in a 80yr old house, maybe 150qm, and consume 4000 kWh/yr gas. I'm not expert but I think your numbers make sense. Sorry off topic, I'm just nosy, but why do you live in such a huge house? My wife grew up in 70qm apartment, Japan, family of 4, crazy enough each child had its own room, not sure they ever felt lack of space. I’d also ask if 4000 kWh per year for gas for your friend’s house is correct? My mother lives in the same size house, 110 years old and uses 35000 kWh of gas. Smaller 1980’s flats and houses near us also use 20000 kWhs+ We use 11,000 kWhs for 150 sq meters living space according to the latest Grundsteuer sizing (Wohnfläche). The overall house size, built in 2007 with very good insulation and heating system, is about 210sq meters from cellar to roof. Our gas consumption is far less than than older houses half the size in our small town. Mainly due to solar energy to heat water. Usually only beneficial during regular sunny spells from around April to September. The solar water heating only works when there are something like 3 consecutive days of mostly sun. Just to add to your question of how anyone chooses suitable house size. Obviously, there’s personal choice and available budget. For us, it was a case of limited choice of properties available to buy in our town and surrounding area. Especially as we had already had to make a decision on our daughter’s secondary education prior to purchase. We were unwilling to change school after year 5 start. And, certainly didn’t want long commute to school or work….10 minute drive to school, 20 minute drive to my husband’s place of work. Good train connections too. We were extremely lucky to find our house that hadn’t yet reached the open market. Me asking everyone we met for over a year that we were looking for a property to buy actually paid off! Our choices were a 1980’s larger detached self built house with very questionable build quality that required much modernisation. Or a much smaller 1960’s terraced house. Modernisation also required There are many of these terraced houses in our town though renowned for cellar flooding, poor build quality and insulation. All options within 20-30k€ price difference. Our 2007 built house was perfect for us. Now our daughter has moved away to study, yes it’s on the too big side. However downsizing isn’t easy either with the overall cost of doing so being far higher than than that of the UK for example. We’re happy to stay here until we find our perfect next home and location. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 1 hour ago, agathaaa said: Should that be 40,000? Sorry, my bad, I wrote one zero too few. Yes, my mate with a very old 150qm house consumes 40,000 kWh/yr 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 9 minutes ago, emkay said: We were extremely lucky to find our house that hadn’t yet reached the open market. What does "not yet reached the open market" mean? Do you mean maybe that the vendor didn't bother trying to sell it to whoever was paying more, they just rather sold it to you simply because you happened to be the first to show interest ...???? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 17 minutes ago, Gambatte said: What does "not yet reached the open market" mean? Do you mean maybe that the vendor didn't bother trying to sell it to whoever was paying more, they just rather sold it to you simply because you happened to be the first to show interest ...??? Short answer, yes. The vendor had engaged a Makler Friday….selling price agreed upon. In those days, offers were likely to be less. We paid full price. Handwritten description completed. Saturday morning, I heard from a school parent friend that she thought the house might actually be for sale after letting might have been a possibility. We knocked on the door (directly across the road from our flat) immediately to ask, verbal deal done same day as we could show that we already had finance approved. We still had to pay the Makler fee. Slightly reduced due to minimal involvement. He was a very decent Makler and found us other mortgage offers though the one we already had was most favourable. He also attended Notar meetings. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February Wow, astonishing. Fine with the fact that in the past property was not as inflated as now, but still... What's the logic, from the vendor's side, in "no reason to bother, after all it would cost me maybe weeks longer, and for only a few 10k of 100k eur more at best..." Well, good for you at least. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 26 minutes ago, Gambatte said: What does "not yet reached the open market" mean? I used to find that odd too, before I moved over here. I'd say the majority of houses around this part of Germany (excluding new development areas) probably don't go on the market (as in, being publicly advertised as for sale). I think it is largely a sign of how underdeveloped the property market is compared to the UK or US. Firstly, there seems to be a lot less buying and selling anyway: my neighbours are amazed when I tell them about the various houses I've owned over the years. As people move less frequently, it is easy for an awful lot of property buying/selling to be done via word of mouth around here. Also, it is quite common that people who want to buy a house or land, will find out the current owner and speak to them about possible future sale. The current owner may be unlikely to be looking to sell, but will keep that interest in mind if/when they do consider selling. Finally, I've noticed not only a dislike of real estate agents (understandable from my experience), but also how homes that are sold via agencies are looked down upon, as in: "it's one of those houses that needs an agent to sell it." i.e. lots of problems, that only a lying agent will be able to persuade some naïve out-of-towner to buy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 6 minutes ago, dstanners said: Finally, I've noticed not only a dislike of real estate agents (understandable from my experience), but also how homes that are sold via agencies are looked down upon, as in: "it's one of those houses that needs an agent to sell it." i.e. lots of problems, that only a lying agent will be able to persuade some naïve out-of-towner to buy. We’ve noticed too that houses that need to be sold via an agent, are the difficult ones. Having said that, we wouldn’t wish to sell privately just because we wouldn’t be aware of all implications. Where we live, as a seller, we wouldn’t have to pay the Makler, just generally sign as exclusive contract for them to sell within usually 3-6 months. Our lovely elderly neighbour over the road left her family home (she was alone in a large property) to move into luxurious senior care home before Christmas. Her family have maintained the house since then. No doubt, it has been sold to a favoured person within the family’s circle of acquaintance. No chance of it being sold via a Makler. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 1 hour ago, Gambatte said: Wow, astonishing. Fine with the fact that in the past property was not as inflated as now, but still... What's the logic, from the vendor's side, in "no reason to bother, after all it would cost me maybe weeks longer, and for only a few 10k of 100k eur more at best..." Well, good for you at least. Not really astonishing at all. Vendor gets 2-3 valuations from Maklers. Chooses preferred Makler, signs contract to sell for agreed selling price. In those days, 2012, actual selling prices were mostly agreed under asking selling price. We purchased at full price to avoid risk. Plus, we had pre approved finance. Simply a quick and uncomplicated sale. It must be very much more difficult for the younger generation these days hoping to buy property. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 1 hour ago, emkay said: Where we live, as a seller, we wouldn’t have to pay the Makler, just generally sign as exclusive contract for them to sell within usually 3-6 months. Are you sure about that? There was a new law introduced at the end of 2020 where the Maklerprovision must be either split equally between both parties or proportionally more paid by the party which hired the Makler. In our area, the cheeky Maklers now ask for 3.57% from both sides of the sale which is ridiculous for the amount of work which is actually involved. We recently sold a house and did it ourselves because of that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 February 5 hours ago, emkay said: signs contract to sell for agreed selling price. ? I've never heard that the final price is negotiated between vendor and agent. Maybe true, but I find it hard to believe. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February 21 hours ago, emkay said: Mainly due to solar energy to heat water. Usually only beneficial during regular sunny spells from around April to September. Are you using a Rohr/Flachkollector, or a system that diverts excess electricity from PV panels to the hot water cylinder? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February 3 minutes ago, agathaaa said: Are you using a Rohr/Flachkollector, or a system that diverts excess electricity from PV panels to the hot water cylinder? I think this is a very rare solution. The other one, Solarthermie, with no electricity whatsever is the common one used for heating water. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February 22 hours ago, emkay said: Our gas consumption is far less than than older houses half the size in our small town. Mainly due to solar energy to heat water. Do you actually measure the amount of Solarthermie energy? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February 4 hours ago, agathaaa said: Are you using a Rohr/Flachkollector, or a system that diverts excess electricity from PV panels to the hot water cylinder? 4 hours ago, Gambatte said: I think this is a very rare solution. The other one, Solarthermie, with no electricity whatsever is the common one used for heating water. I’m not entirely sure how the water heating works from the solar panels. I don’t believe that there’s any element of electricity captured by the panels. 4 hours ago, Gambatte said: Do you actually measure the amount of Solarthermie energy? Not in any specific way. I just check the gas meter regularly during spring and summer. Last year, it didn’t increase between April and early October. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February On 06/02/2023, 16:26:16, Eric7 said: Are you sure about that? There was a new law introduced at the end of 2020 where the Maklerprovision must be either split equally between both parties or proportionally more paid by the party which hired the Makler. In our area, the cheeky Maklers now ask for 3.57% from both sides of the sale which is ridiculous for the amount of work which is actually involved. We recently sold a house and did it ourselves because of that. I’m not up to date with Makler fee structure. Back in 2012 when we bought in Hessen, buyers paid the whole fee. Whereas, at that time, in Bayern I believe that sellers paid all or most of the fee. Where we live, a Makler usually only gets the most difficult of houses to sell. 19 hours ago, Gambatte said: ? I've never heard that the final price is negotiated between vendor and agent. Maybe true, but I find it hard to believe. I meant that an asking price is agreed between vendor and agent. The agent then markets at that price. The end selling price could vary +/-. Back then, agent commission was based on the actual sold price. Same as in the UK. At the time we bought, my mother in law wanted to sell her house though wanted 30%+ more than any agent’s valuation. All agents declined her instruction. Too much time and effort for them ti accompany every viewing with a vendor unwilling to negotiate realistically. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 7 February 42 minutes ago, emkay said: I’m not up to date with Makler fee structure. Back in 2012 when we bought in Hessen, buyers paid the whole fee. Whereas, at that time, in Bayern I believe that sellers paid all or most of the fee. Where we live, a Makler usually only gets the most difficult of houses to sell. We also bought in 2012 (the house in Bayern that we have just sold), and paid the full Makler fee ourselves too. Most houses around ours were being sold through a Makler. God only knows why, it really isn't that difficult - certainly not worth paying €25-30k for someone else to do it for you! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 February 15 hours ago, Eric7 said: God only knows why, it really isn't that difficult - certainly not worth paying €25-30k for someone else to do it for you! I think vendors deciding to hire a Makler believe, right or wrong, he helps them getting a higher final price, so overall they're still better off. If I had to sell a house and a Makler charged me 6% I would definitely hire one. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 February The problem as well is buyers only see the "work" the real state agent did with them and things look easy. Selling property in Germany in some areas can be a PITA, the whole process is very slow and there are many "time wasters". The agent might have to show the property 100 times before finding someone really interested. There are some weird people out there, it is like it is a hobby to them, they have been "searching" for a property for five, ten or even more years, but they never find anything "worth", so they continue making appointments every month. There are people who are actually not buying anything, but they want to "gauge" the market. There are people somehow trying to find new friends and there are the ones who only go there to criticize everything. And so on. Some sellers try to sell their property without an agent, some succeed, some give up after a couple of months. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 February Colleague of mine, Chinese, highly paid and PhD, but with very limited German, told me when he email Makler he very often doesn't even get he reply. Not sure if this is racism or what, but if the market was not as hot I bet Makler would probably behave differently. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 February 38 minutes ago, Gambatte said: I think vendors deciding to hire a Makler believe, right or wrong, he helps them getting a higher final price, so overall they're still better off. If I had to sell a house and a Makler charged me 6% I would definitely hire one. This is certainly possible but unless you know the market, it's difficult to know what a higher price is. Our logic was that a house sold privately for €500k (for example) would cost the buyer €535k if they went through a Makler, for the seller to end up with the same amount of money - what is more attractive for a buyer - an house costing them €500k or one costing €535k? 23 minutes ago, Krieg said: The problem as well is buyers only see the "work" the real state agent did with them and things look easy. Selling property in Germany in some areas can be a PITA, the whole process is very slow and there are many "time wasters". The agent might have to show the property 100 times before finding someone really interested. There are some weird people out there, it is like it is a hobby to them, they have been "searching" for a property for five, ten or even more years, but they never find anything "worth", so they continue making appointments every month. There are people who are actually not buying anything, but they want to "gauge" the market. There are people somehow trying to find new friends and there are the ones who only go there to criticize everything. And so on. If the agent is showing the property more than 20 times then the property is likely overpriced. I agree about the time wasters though! Even people who are legitimately looking for a house, actually like your house and want to buy it can end up wasting weeks with a failed attempt at getting financing. Then there are the people who don't even bother turning up to the viewing after you have driven for an hour to get to the house. I guess it's a question of how much is your time worth. 23 minutes ago, Krieg said: Some sellers try to sell their property without an agent, some succeed, some give up after a couple of months. Maklers do have their place, it's just that I would advise people not to be put off trying to sell their house themselves by the idea that it's really difficult or too much work. Worst case scenario, they can always employ a Makler if they are unsuccessful. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
