Posted 19 Dec 2022 Sooner or later the pipes may start to leak. Thin pipes (plastic?) snaking under the floor, hundreds of meters of pipe in a house? How strong are pipes and floor? Can they take the weight of hundreds of kilos of books? When they have to be replaced the floors have to be torn up and replaced. Radiator heating is ubiquitous and simple, millions of installations. In Neufuenfland many towns have district heating (you often see the big metal pipes by the rail tracks). Uses waste heat from the Zerspanungswerk at the edge of town. Waste heat? Why are people charged for it?😉 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 26 minutes ago, Fietsrad said: Sooner or later the pipes may start to leak. Thin pipes (plastic?) snaking under the floor, hundreds of meters of pipe in a house? How strong are pipes and floor? Can they take the weight of hundreds of kilos of books? When they have to be replaced the floors have to be torn up and replaced. Radiator heating is ubiquitous and simple, millions of installations. 23 hours ago, Fietsrad said: How do you get your water inside your place? I bet with pipes under the floor and inside the walls. How do you send out your waste? I bet with pipes under the floor. This guy brings the crappiest arguments I've seen in a long time here. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 No, the pipes are exposed! I figure they lead into the utility room next door, through a few centimeters of concrete There are millions of conventional radiator installations, there must be thousands of people who can fix them. I guess that sooner or later there will be many firms repairing and replacing underfloor heating. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 The water come to your house through exposed pipes and your toilet sends your shit via exposed pipes? What a weird house you have. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 1 hour ago, Fietsrad said: Thin pipes (plastic?) snaking under the floor, hundreds of meters of pipe in a house? The pipes are made of metal in every house I have been in 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 I am worried about the pipes for underfloor heating, they are laid in serpentines, then the floor is put on top. What are underfloor heating pipes made of? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 19 Dec 2022 1 hour ago, Fietsrad said: there must be thousands of people who can fix them. Somebody hasn't tried to find a Handwerker before. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 20 Dec 2022 7 hours ago, Fietsrad said: I am worried about the pipes for underfloor heating, they are laid in serpentines, then the floor is put on top. What are underfloor heating pipes made of? Plastic. The floor/screed isn't put on top but is poured around the pipes. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 29 Dec 2022 Hardly used the heating today, left the window open when I went out. But I have to shut it now, sounds like a war outside. People having "fun" with fireworks. I wonder how many innocent animals die of shock on December 31. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 4 January On 19/12/2022, 18:20:58, Fietsrad said: Waste heat? Why are people charged for it? Because the pipes and other infrastructure that carry it from the factory to the house has an installation and maintenance cost associated with it. If the company producing the heat just dumped it into the ground or the sky it would cost them much much less, but would be a waste. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 January On 04/01/2023, 12:45:00, pappnase said: Because the pipes and other infrastructure that carry it from the factory to the house has an installation and maintenance cost associated with it. If the company producing the heat just dumped it into the ground or the sky it would cost them much much less, but would be a waste. Also because it´s Germany and people will pay stuff because they´re told to and don´t dare object. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 8 January On 14/12/2022, 22:02:36, fraufruit said: A bit late replying to this but have just seen this. I stand by what I said, that €300 will let me pay my electricity bill at the end of January without robbing Peter to pay Paul and it will probably save a lot of people from going further into debt or even having their energy supply cut off. This is where people don´t want to recognise the difference between need and want. To many people that €300 may mean that they can still go out to eat or movies or whatever leisure activity they do that month or it may just be another €300 to stick in their savings but to many people, it may mean the difference between paying the bill and still having money left to spend on food that month. If anyone has forgotten that they´re getting an extra €300 to help then they do not need that money, they may want it but they don´t need it. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January Mrs Jarasch of the pale greens, who wants to take charge of Berlin after February 12, has a Dienstrad/employer-provided cycle. She made clear that it is a "real" or conventional cycle WITHOUT a motor. Very good. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January On 12/15/2022, 5:36:03, Gambatte said: @murphaphthat is/was exactly my guess. We will see how the market evolves within few years... btw didn't the government already ban gas heating in new build from some time in the near future? 2030? Surely then all the gas installers will have to learn how to install WP and things will change... I was also shocked by what they charge. I think one aspect is the size of the system. Those 20/30KW systems cost a lot. As Murphy said, they are basically air conditioning systems, which convert air heat to water heat. A much cheaper solution is to install a split air conditioning system in the rooms which need additional heating/cooling. You can find some nice split systems (cooler/heater inside, big fan and compressor outside) with a very good COP/SEER values. If run off solar PV, then they are effectively free. https://geizhals.de/?cat=hklimams&sort=p&xf=19384_20%7E4877_LG%7E4877_Toshiba I selected the one's I looked at, basically LG and Toshiba. A little over 1K per unit, plus installation. Finding an installer in Munich has proved to be a PITA, so can't say how well such an approach works yet. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January @scook17 Have you tried this company? Many years ago when we bought our split unit AC/heating, we hired one company that did everything. It was easy. Neither one of us can remember the name of the company, though. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January 17 minutes ago, scook17 said: If run off solar PV, then they are effectively free. The graph is from our own household. Our house was built in 2019, so it's well insulated. In addition to the graph: our 9kWp photovoltaic fully covers both sides of our East- and West- roof. We have no shadow. Look at the graph and draw your own conclusion. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January On 1/8/2023, 7:24:10, Keleth said: A bit late replying to this but have just seen this. I stand by what I said, that €300 will let me pay my electricity bill at the end of January without robbing Peter to pay Paul and it will probably save a lot of people from going further into debt or even having their energy supply cut off. This is where people don´t want to recognise the difference between need and want. To many people that €300 may mean that they can still go out to eat or movies or whatever leisure activity they do that month or it may just be another €300 to stick in their savings but to many people, it may mean the difference between paying the bill and still having money left to spend on food that month. If anyone has forgotten that they´re getting an extra €300 to help then they do not need that money, they may want it but they don´t need it. I just want to add that unfortunately the 300 EUR bonus was considered income so it was taxable. In my case that made it a 150 EUR bonus, so while I won't say no to free money, it was not that much considering the increase in the costs of energy. But I was not really the target group for this help, it should be better for families with real financial problems. I am not sure but I think the Inflation Relief bonus won't be taxable, but then I think in the way it was designed only families with high(ish) income will receive it. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 9 January 1 minute ago, Krieg said: I just want to add that unfortunately the 300 EUR bonus was considered income so it was taxable. In my case that made it a 150 EUR bonus, so while I won't say no to free money, it was not that much considering the increase in the costs of energy. But I was not really the target group for this help, it should be better for families with real financial problems. I am not sure but I think the Inflation Relief bonus won't be taxable, but then I think in the way it was designed only families with high(ish) income will receive it. Similar to the 2 $1400 stimulus checks I got in the US. Didn't need them. Donated to charity. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 January On 1/9/2023, 10:45:21, Gambatte said: The graph is from our own household. Our house was built in 2019, so it's well insulated. In addition to the graph: our 9kWp photovoltaic fully covers both sides of our East- and West- roof. We have no shadow. Look at the graph and draw your own conclusion. I think most people who have gas + solar have a similar graph. Winter = no sun = gas heating Summer = too much sun and huge surplus electricity. Now if you remove the gas heating, with a 20-30k cost for a massive heat pump, then you maybe drop the KWh by half, let's say even to one quarter if you 'trust' the figures quoted in terms of COP etc. As long as gas was a quarter or less the price of electricity, it made no financial sense. Now electricity is 2x the gas price, would make sense to have the option if the install was not quite so expensive to retro fit. Hence looking at split air con systems which also heat. House went up next to me this year. At the last minute, they decided to connect to the gas pipe in the road 'just in case'. Who knows, maybe one day they pump hydrogen instead of gas. Solve the CO2 issue at the source, and you can even make it from 'spare' electricity in the summer if done on an industrial scale. Better, I would suggest, than paying the Arab countries to ship boat loads of the stuff here. BTW, one thing I did notice, from the graph. My gas consumption goes to almost zero in the summer, as heating is off and water gets switched over to an electric heat pump. Only the gas hob remains, and an occasional boost to the hot water or the off cold night's heating, but really drops to almost nothing. At least something to use that wasted summer electricity for. Tried some years all gas, others switching, and settled on switching and running the heat pump when I have solar power. Around 9 months of the year, this mostly works. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 13 January On 1/9/2023, 10:53:52, fraufruit said: Similar to the 2 $1400 stimulus checks I got in the US. Didn't need them. Donated to charity. But those $1,400 checks were not taxable, whereas @Krieg says the 300 € bonus is. Doesn’t seem right. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
