Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

757 posts in this topic

On 11/16/2022, 11:50:51, PandaMunich said:

Actually, SWM, left the yearly fixed fee for the electricity meter unchanged - this time round. They had already put it up from 90€ to 104€ on 01.01.2022.

Which of course gladdens the hearts of people who live in older houses with two electricity meters and who therefore have to pay two such Grundpreise each year, while not using more energy than households with just one electricity meter.

 

Might I mention that back in 2014, the yearly fixed fee for the meter was just 52.95€?

And that SWM is now looking at an unexpected windfall profit of 500 million €, just because the Isar 2 nuclear power plant (of which SWM owns 25%) will continue to function until May 2023, instead of being shut down on 31. December 2022 as initially planned? 

https://www-merkur-de.translate.goog/lokales/muenchen/zentrum/weiterbetrieb-von-isar-stadtraete-fordern-klarheit-stadtwerke-sollen-gewinne-auf-muenchner-umlegen-91703961.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

And that SWM has no intention of using these extra 500 million € to lower their prices, all they intend to do is create a Notfallfonds (emergency fund) of a measly 20 million €, to help the neediest pay their Stadtwerke bills?

As their CEO (a former London investment banker who was head of the Juso (= Junge Sozialdemokraten), i.e. a political appointment) says in this article, they are a GmbH, i.e. a private company and therefore want to turn a profit: https://www-abendzeitung--muenchen-de.translate.goog/muenchen/swm-chef-bieberbach-akw-verlaengerung-find-ich-gut-art-853800?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

But he forgets to mention that the Stadtwerke München GmbH is 100% owned by the city of Munich: https://www-swm-de.translate.goog/stadtwerke-muenchen?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Ah well, SWM has always had a special relationship with the truth, just look at SWM's (false) claim that 90% of Munich's electricity stem from renewable sources: https://www-abendzeitung--muenchen-de.translate.goog/muenchen/eine-bewusste-irrefuehrung-die-muenchner-oekostrom-luege-art-828596?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

Why do older houses have two meters? I checked the bill from EON and they charge 9 Euros a year for the meter and 116 Euros for the connection.

 

All the efforts currently seem to be about smoothing the rising prices. The 200 billion, as far as I can see, is money the government is just burning. The government pays the difference between the actual price and the price the consumers pay. So both the huge energy costs consumers pay AND the money the government borrows to stop voters kicking them out, is flowing out of Germany to the energy producers. The money is burnt and next year more must be thrown on the pile.

 

That 200 billion would buy a lot of solar panels, new wind mills, and fund a huge insulation program for older houses. 

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/germanys-largest-real-estate-firm-gets-eib-funds-energy-efficiency-renovations

 

Seems to me no one is focusing on long term measures to reduce consumption, but here I see mostly silly measures which harm the population. Turn of the lights so we kill more pedestrians and cyclists. Make swimming pools freezing so no one uses them and we get more sick people due to lack of exercise. Turn off hot water in the showers, so no one showers and the pool becomes full of dirty bathers. Turn down the district heating temperature so old people suffer more from the cold which drives up the medical bills, or they plug in an old electrical heater which uses 3-4x more energy.

 

The alternative? Install the infrastructure to power the lights around pedestrian crossings and where they are risk of cars/people/bikes. Cover the swimming pool roof with solar, use geo-thermal, building them near natural springs etc. Just switch over the green energy and stop this nonsense. Make sure that thermal heating plants burn only green fuels. or use recovered heat. The central heating system where I was ran on gas and was recently converted it to run on wood chips. The motorway which they expanded over the last few years finally gets solar panels on the banks, powering 4000 local homes. The local council writes how the network operator dragged it's feet.

 

The SWM article you linked, Munich has 90% green energy. Greenwashing. Munich has 6% actually as most people don't count buying a windmill in Norway as Munich power. As one of the articles mentioned, putting solar on all Municipal buildings would cover 25% of Munich's power usage. This doesn't happen because the electricity companies are AGAINST renewables, as they want to be a central provider and don't want people to be able to produce power without buying it from them.

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Lights were turned off to save energy before the trouble, on the way from the train station to the bus station at 21oo😕

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I just got a post from swm today. They will increase eletricity price from 24,97c/kwh to……. 61,89c for M-Strom tarrif starting with 2023. This is with 19% vat. 
WTF??

If electricity increased for almost 3x, how high the gas will go…

This will be a masacre.

 

PS: ah, i see @PandaMunichalready mentioned it in previous posts. I overlooked it because of the irrelevant cafe machines posts.

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Eh, sorry, @fraufruit mentioned the love letter first.

How it‘s possible that we get different price increases? 
@toBnruG, what is your secret you have such a better rate?

 

 

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I guess these providers are massively increasing their electricity prices now because from the 1st of January they will "only" be able to charge up to 40c/kWh for 80% of your normal electricity requirements, the remaining 20% being charged at these very high prices. I was trying to reduce my electricity consumption by lighting wood fires to relieve the heat pump of much of its work but now I think I will stop lighting fires until January 1st, take a meter reading then and then start lighting fires again, turning the heating off again on the ground and first floors. The basis for the Strompreisbremse being your usage in 2022 as far as I can tell. Does anyone know if the calculation is really based on the calendar year ? I am guessing so as our meters are read in early January normally. It's a bit perverse to use electricity instead of the logs I have outside but I am wary of reducing my consumption now and then having only 80% of this reduced consumption covered by the Bremse.

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18 hours ago, SpaceOne said:

I just got a post from swm today. They will increase eletricity price from 24,97c/kwh to……. 61,89c for M-Strom tarrif starting with 2023. 

Perhaps it's time to change the provider. Other provider shows better rate in check24 comparison site 

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On 19/11/2022, 14:25:21, SpaceOne said:

...

@toBnruG, what is your secret you have such a better rate?

We moved to a 100% "Ökostrom" tariff some time ago. Everything we use comes from hydro-electric generators in the river. Essentially the cost of producing our electricity should not have changed one iota, but in reality I guess the running costs have to be impacted and there is some coupling with the gas price which I don't understand.

Lucky to live somewhere which offers 100% hydro-electric I suppose.

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Here is a shocker. Seems that these floating gas terminals will cost.... 

Wait for it

Not three billion, but seven billion... and the infrastructure on land seems to be lacking.

On asked why. Harbeck is quoted by saying: "Well it had to be done fast!"

Are these people for real?

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Trying to use less energy is all very well, but I tend to want to "save" too much.

 

But I just understood* that the temperatures are in minus: close the window! Use the heating! Wear warm clothes including a hat when going out!

 

* probably happens the same every winter😉

Fortunately I am in a "comfortable financial situation", to quote Mr M€rz. But not as comfortable as he is.

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On 11/21/2022, 9:32:40, toBnruG said:

We moved to a 100% "Ökostrom" tariff some time ago. Everything we use comes from hydro-electric generators in the river. Essentially the cost of producing our electricity should not have changed one iota, but in reality I guess the running costs have to be impacted and there is some coupling with the gas price which I don't understand.

Lucky to live somewhere which offers 100% hydro-electric I suppose.

 

Well the market rate moved. So why would the electricity company sell to you at half the current rate, except that you signed up for some contract term? Whilst the electricity might be produced locally, there is no stipulation that requires them to sell it to locals. If, as a farmer, I grow tomatoes and I can get more for my tomatoes in the next town, then maybe I take them to that market instead of my local one where the prices are lower.

 

The 100% Okostrom tariffs are a great idea if enough people were to use them. They cost MORE not less than regular tariffs. How can that be the case??? Once I put up a wind turbine or install solar power, the 'fuel' is free. So the cost is simply the installation cost + maintenance cost over the lifetime of the unit, divided by the expected lifetime. Thus I have installed a 20K Euros solar system. These typically last 20 years (they still work after this), and usually require zero maintenance. Thus the cost is simply (20K + 0K) / 20 Years = 1K per year.

 

As an approximation, you get around, or marginally more than 1MWh per year per 1KWh of installed solar capacity if I look at my solar system here in Bavaria.

Typically only about one third you will consume, and the remaining two thirds pump into the grid, so power the houses/apartments immediately around you.

 

According to https://www.eon.de/de/pk/strom/stromverbrauch/stromverbrauch-berechnen.html

A single person in an apartment uses 1500kwh/year (1.5MWh) and a 3 person family house 3700KWh.

For the most part, except when river levels run low, hydro generates power 24/7, so despite everything being 100% Okostrom, in practice the peaks (mornings, evenings) are likely drawn from other power sources, and over the night hardly anyone uses the power generated.

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On 11/19/2022, 5:16:57, murphaph said:

The basis for the Strompreisbremse being your usage in 2022 as far as I can tell.

 

Himself said is is based on usage in the month of Sept. "What the government said", which I assume is the federal government.

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One month's usage outside the heating season would completely fuck over heat pump owners as their bills are heavily influenced by the winter months. I certainly hope that is not true!

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Himself said is is based on usage in the month of Sept. "What the government said", which I assume is the federal government.

 

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

One month's usage outside the heating season would completely fuck over heat pump owners as their bills are heavily influenced by the winter months. I certainly hope that is not true!

 

According to BR24, 80% of the usage during 2022 is capped at 40ct kW/h for 2023. The same for gas - 80% capped at 12ct.
That's been changed to be from the start of January, instead of the previously announced date of March.

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5 hours ago, Eric7 said:

 

 

According to BR24, 80% of the usage during 2022 is capped at 40ct kW/h for 2023. The same for gas - 80% capped at 12ct.
That's been changed to be from the start of January, instead of the previously announced date of March.

So the 80% cap is determined by the household usage in 2022. If I use 10.000 kWh this year,  the first 8.000kWh next year will be capped?

 

This is interesting for me because I just purchased a property that will be empty in November and December. The heating will be on, but very low which means consumption this year will be artificially low.

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Is it based on consumption to 31st December 2022? If so I will stop using firewood immediately and switch on our heating system in the entire house so I don't drive the usage down below where it would naturally be. 

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The Bund website says (updated on Monday):

Quote

Eine Strompreisbremse soll ab Januar 2023 dazu beitragen, dass die Stromkosten insgesamt sinken. Der Strompreis für private Verbraucher sowie kleine und mittlere Unternehmen wird daher bei 40 Cent pro Kilowattstunde gedeckelt. Dies gilt für den Basisbedarf von 80 Prozent des Vorjahresverbrauchs

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/themen/entlastungen-im-ueberblick/strompreisbremse-2125002

 

I have just switched on the heating on our ground floor :-) I will use it normally until the spring and try to turn it off earlier than I usually would. That will leave more electricity available at 40c in winter 2023.

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