Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

759 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, pappnase said:

The streetlights on my street use LED bulbs and have a little solar panel on the top of each one, I'm pretty sure the usage is negligible compared to the increase in pedestrian safety that comes from having a lit street.

Are you saying the solar panel actually provides the power (it would have to be via a battery I presume) for the light? If not and then despite the power saving of using LEDS they would still be wasting power when lit in the early hours when you would expect very few pedestrians and road vehicles to be about.

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Hot water 24/7 is a basic right ? Really ? I would say running water, drinking water, a roof and a flush toilet should be. In a tax collecting, civilised society. But where does it stop ? What is the definition of luxury ?

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15 minutes ago, optimista said:

Hot water 24/7 is a basic right ? Really ? I would say running water, drinking water, a roof and a flush toilet should be. In a tax collecting, civilised society. But where does it stop ? What is the definition of luxury ?

I think the post was ill thought out.  And there are great alternavites in villages with communal toilets where the stuff ends up not polluting their waterways and produce energy. Fluxh toilets are not so great when you end up drinking your own crap.  They have biogas stuff.  So cooking gas plus fertiser.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

And there are great alternavites in villages with communal toilets where the stuff ends up not polluting their waterways and produce energy. Fluxh toilets are not so great when you end up drinking your own crap.

 

Based on my experience of the cleanliness of public toilets, NO THANKS. It should not make any difference if the stuff goes into the sewerage  system from a communal toilet or from individual ones in each dwelling, purifying it and turning it into fertiliser etc.are what sewerage works do!

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2 hours ago, optimista said:

Hot water 24/7 is a basic right ? Really ? I would say running water, drinking water, a roof and a flush toilet should be. In a tax collecting, civilised society. But where does it stop ? What is the definition of luxury ?

I´m saying we are at the point in our evolution where it is not a luxury.

You are saying despite where man is as a species with everything that it has achieved should consider hot water a fucking luxury?

When nations can spend billions on war, putting man in space and all this stuff that you think hot water should still be a luxury.

 

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3 hours ago, optimista said:

Hot water 24/7 is a basic right ?

According to my late wife a dishwasher is. They just forgot adding that to the list when they drafted the declaration of human rights.

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24/7 hot water is unnecessary in single or dual person dwellings. But I take your fucking angrily expressed point, dear K.

Where should man begin saving on energy ? I would be in favour of starting by ending space exploration ... now that will get the cortisol running in some quarters ... and dismantling the arms industry. That way the boys can go back to fighting their effin', bloody wars with bayonets. It provided good fertiliser on Flanders fields and the opium trade went great guns in 1919. 

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On 11/11/2022, 5:52:18, snowingagain said:

I think the post was ill thought out.  And there are great alternavites in villages with communal toilets where the stuff ends up not polluting their waterways and produce energy. Fluxh toilets are not so great when you end up drinking your own crap.  They have biogas stuff.  So cooking gas plus fertiser.

On 11/11/2022, 6:21:02, keith2011 said:

Based on my experience of the cleanliness of public toilets, NO THANKS. It should not make any difference if the stuff goes into the sewerage  system from a communal toilet or from individual ones in each dwelling, purifying it and turning it into fertiliser etc.are what sewerage works do!

 

There are some good examples of how to build a composting toilet online for those people into the 'very' green movement. Urine can be put directly into the land/garden/fields. As someone who grew up in the countryside and now lives there again, you would often see dairy farmers collect the cows urine and then spread it on the fields. Cows don't stop the call of nature just because they are being milked. :lol:

 

Human waste however contains a lot of nasty bacteria which is almost exclusively found in solid waste. So ideally we'd separate out the good urine and put this directly into fertilizer whilst the solid waste needs treatment to remove the bacteria. Whilst solid waste and waste paper can be composted, people often flush baby wipes and all sorts of plastic based materials down the toilet. Thus any separation at the treatment plant ends up with a mix of organic waste, paper and plastic. I really wish they'd invent/use/mandate such wipes were made from plant materials and not plastic as it would then at least mean the waste problem is at least an organic one.

 

Coming back to the home composting toilet, I can't ever see it working well in public. Basically after every use you have to throw down some sawdust to cover the usage completely. So you need a regular supply of such stuff to stop smells and flying insects. I have no idea if you can use shredded paper as I use on the compost pile for the same purpose. Fresh kitchen waste attracts flies, so you either turn the compost pile or cover it in layers. You only have to look at the hole in the ground toilets found in part of France to see why they invented the flush toilet.

 

Once the container for all the waste is full, it has to be removed and composted. If done correctly, the temperature in a composting bin heap can get up to 50/60C. Most people get composting wrong and give up with the whole process after a while. Correct treatment is necessary to remove the parasites and other nasty stuff. Maybe except for a few  'green' communes and North Korea I am not aware of any use of human solid waste usage in fertilizer. Especially in the developed world, often untreated, it's put into the rivers or the sea.

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On 11/11/2022, 9:48:15, optimista said:

Turn off public lighting at night. This is catching on in France. Crazy illuminating buildings inside and out, empty roads, sports stadiums, etc. at 3 in the morning. It s a drop in the ocean but they have to start somewhere. This one only punishes the energy suppliers. The feared rise in night crime has failed to materialise. Or they are not shouting about it.

 

Actually the one thing I miss from the UK, is lighting the bloody roads at night and/or using cat's eyes. For those not from the UK, the reflectors inserted into the road so you can see the lanes at night. Being reflectors they emit no light, just reflect the headlights. I am absolutely sure German took the decision to kill people vs. spend some money on electricity to light the highways. Absolutely the wrong call IMHO. I am sure you could find studies which show night lighting of roads reduces car and car/pedestrian/cycle deaths.

 

How you provide the power is another matter. I installed outside lighting because my house sits at the end of a road off the public road, behind another house which got the street access. So the street lighting provides little in terms of light around the house. When you have visitors at night, you can not have them tripping over because it's dark. I installed a PIR based flood light for the road, but after a while took it down again as it blinds you. I then tried various solar lights, 95% of which are complete crap. Finally I found some which work well and seems to work even now in winter. They light place until around 1am or so when they run out of power, but this more than enough.

 

I also installed some pretty bright Christmas lights as 'uplighters' around the building which actually do draw grid power. I connected these to one of those cheap 'solar generators' which charges from solar/grid during the day, and powers the lights at night, until the battery runs empty of the timer kicks in. You can't rely completely on solar as some days you just don't get enough power. However, led's need really not than much power. I measured 5w for a 5m strip for example. With a simple timer, or a dust/dawn sensor you can automatically control the lighting.

 

You could use PIRs on old country roads for example for the streetlights, but often they are a pain. My neighbour has one such light. Goes on and off all night long. They often need 'tweaking' to avoid this, setting individually the sensitivity. Not practical for a set of street lights. However, sure you can store the power during the day and power then in a green way.

 

As for concentrating on night lighting, it reduces overall consumption, but this is not the problem. Certain base load need to run all the time, so at nigh the real cost of producing electricity is often near zero. The problem is the peak hours. Here everything has to be powered up (Coal, Gas, Oil, Nuclear, ...) to cover the peak demand in the early evening. Here you just get people to put the washing machine / dish washer / clothes dryer / EV / hot water heater and other large loads which can easily be shifted, to other times. This would do far more to drop electricity prices and reduce the need to burn gas than turning off all the lights. It's helps, but it's not addressing the main problem.

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4 hours ago, scook17 said:

Correct treatment is necessary to remove the parasites and other nasty stuff. Maybe except for a few  'green' communes and North Korea I am not aware of any use of human solid waste usage in fertilizer. Especially in the developed world, often untreated, it's put into the rivers or the sea.

 

That is not correct, prior to the advent of sewerage "main drainage" in towns and cities in Europe, untreated solid waste was collected and shipped out to the country for use as fertiliser, also urine was a valuable commodity for use in the leather tanning industry. Having lived in Berkshire I am well aware that Slough sewerage works  provided fertiliser in sprayer tankers  that farmers paid for to be sprayed on their fields. A very quick google also came up with this latest offering from Slough Sewerage works, see the link below. I accept that the illegal dumping of untreated sewerage into the rivers and sea in the UK is disgraceful but don't forget here in Germany the major cause of water contamination is animal slurry that farmers spread on their fields which gets washed into the rivers and lakes.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/06/nutrient-recovery-fertiliser-human-excrement-slough

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Sewage or fruit? I used to wonder what the Pfredeaepfel/horse apples were, that are available from farms by the road.

 

I guess you can use the Pferdeaepfeln as compost for apple trees😉

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Question to neighbour: "What do you put on your Rhubarb?"

Answer. "Dung. what do you put on yours?"

Answer. "We put custard on ours!":D

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5 degrees the last 2 nights, not really cold I realise, and up a high of 12.  I admit the all windows open, blow through today was less than 10 minutes.    But it is still 20 inside.   I ballsed up the hot water settings so they were on for most of the day today.  Switching off for the next few days, after my nice warm shower.

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One should be very careful about Stosslueftung/drastic airing as recommended by "experts", leaving all the windows wide open for a while.

 

I would be worried about a cat getting in, or a cat burglar. Even worse if you have small children or pets, they could fall out the window.

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No, no you shouldn't. If a cat burglar can get in (within the ten minutes you air), not much concern of something falling out and a big fail. 

 

If you are are on the tenth floor, don't be fucking stupid.

 

(Heating still off)

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42 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

One should be very careful about Stosslueftung/drastic airing as recommended by "experts", leaving all the windows wide open for a while.  I would be worried about a cat getting in, or a cat burglar. Even worse if you have small children or pets, they could fall out the window.

Are you mad, drunk, or having a laugh?   Or any combination of those?

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Apparently there have been incidents of children crawling out of open windows during Stosslueftung😕

..

Besides, Stosslueftung does not make sense. Open the windows to let cold air in, soon the temperature is too low. Then keep the windows closed all day so the air gets much too warm.

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3 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Apparently there have been incidents of children crawling out of open windows during Stosslueftung😕

..

Besides, Stosslueftung does not make sense. Open the windows to let cold air in, soon the temperature is too low. Then keep the windows closed all day so the air gets much too warm.

10 minutes is fine.  Really.  Short sharp burst.  The air gets changed which is important, and the furnishings, walls retain the heat.  Temperature goes back up quickly. Try it out.   And yes, when my children were young, I kept them safe from the windows.  It is only 5 to 10 mintues. 

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Well, now we got the combo: after gas I just received a letter from SWM doubling our electricity price from January onwards. I had heard of others in Munich receiving it so not a huge surprise. I’m terribly satisfied right now to have signed the contract for the photovoltaic system two weeks ago, and to have designed it as big as possible. Hopefully I get it installed without problems - my rentability computations just received a significant adjustment.

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