Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

[fraufruit 42,671]

Thanks, karin!

[murphaph 9,854]

7 degrees is fine for a fridge. Ours is always set to that.

[AlexTr 19,771]

I am in the process of replacing all of our analog thermostatic radiator valves with programmable digital ones. I am hoping that this will correct our tendency to: 1) forget to turn the damn things off at night; and, 2) bump the heat up because we feel cold. We agreed that we will set them at 20 and that is the temperature the room will be. We do not use the radiators in our bedroom, the kitchen, or the guest room. I am conceding on the closed door battle and we will keep all doors inside closed in the winter. I really hate this because it makes some rooms into caves.

 

10 minutes ago, murphaph said:

7 degrees is fine for a fridge. Ours is always set to that.

 

I saw the original post and know there is no fresh meat there. The recommended temperature for refrigerating fresh meat and milk products is 4 degrees Celsius. If those items aren't there, all other food items types that should be chilled can survive at anything under 8 degrees Celsius. My buddies at supply corps taught me that.

[snowingagain 5,465]

 

 

5 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

The recommended temperature for refrigerating fresh meat and milk products is 4 degrees Celsius. If those items aren't there, all other food items types that should be chilled can survive at anything under 8 degrees Celsius. My buddies at supply corps taught me that.

Mass-catering is quite a different matter.  I have 1 litre of milk to keep my eye/nose on.  Hard cheese is fine at 7 grad as long as not grated.  Butter ditto.  Have to be more cautious with soft cheeses, but as I said, they tend to disappear.   Mind you my better half cannot tell when stuff is off, sense is smell/taste is not that good.  Or perhaps he does not mind?

[murphaph 9,854]

It seems the EU recommends 5 and Germany has long recommended 7. One should definitely push it as high as it can go because each degree lower costs 5% more energy and refrigeration is one of the bigger consumers of electricity in the home. I suspect fresh meat that is packed in a protective atmosphere or vacuum packed is safer at higher temps than meat cut from the bone at your local butcher. There I would definitely be more careful.

 

Mass catering is completely different because the fridges are opening and closing every couple of minutes. That's also why commercial grade chillers are far less efficient than domestic ones. They have to work hard to maintain temp.

[snowingagain 5,465]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

Mass catering is completely different because the fridges are opening and closing every couple of minutes. That's also why commercial grade chillers are far less efficient than domestic ones. They have to work hard to maintain temp.

That plus the chance of a mistake being made and something off being cooked (and fed to a large number of people) is much higher.  I have worked in kitchens and seem some hair-raising lack of hygiene.

[Janx Spirit 11,384]

"In one tiny German town, nobody worries about energy bills"

 

Quote

FELDHEIM, Germany (AP) — Europeans are opening their energy bills with trepidation these days, bracing for hefty price hikes as utility companies pass on the surging cost of natural gas, oil and electricity tied to Russia’s war in Ukraine. Many are trying to conserve by turning down the heat and shutting off lights this winter.

Not so the people of Feldheim, population 130.

 

Located about an hour and a half south of Berlin, this modest but well-kept village has been energy self-sufficient for more than a decade.

 

A bold experiment launched in the mid-1990s saw Feldheim erect a handful of wind turbines to provide electricity to the village. Then it built a local grid, solar panels, battery storage and more turbines. A biogas plant put up to keep piglets warm was expanded, providing extra income to the farmers’ cooperative, which pumps hot water through a village-wide central heating system. A hydrogen production facility is also under construction.

...

“They can all sleep well at night,” says Kathleen Thompson, who works for a local educational organization, the New Energies Forum. “They’ve got no concerns because the prices are not going to change, not in the immediate future anyway.”

 

While wind parks elsewhere in Germany often face opposition, including some economically depressed neighboring villages, Feldheim’s close-knit community approved so many turbines that it actually exports about 250 times as much electricity as it consumes.

 

More here: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-germany-berlin-004aa36a74b44435c3a29cac0fc15b67

 

..and hopefully more projects like this.

 

[MikeMelga 7,345]

I never understood wind turbine opposition from the argument of landscape. For me they look like the best integration between technology and natural landscape, from pure aesthetic perspective.

[fraufruit 42,671]

I agree. Great at a distance but very loud up close.

 

An Austrian friend of mine invested in one in her tiny village about 20 yrs. ago. They were never told how loud it would be but she still gets her money monthly. Nightmare for those living very close.

[Janx Spirit 11,384]

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

I agree. Great at a distance but very loud up close.

 

An Austrian friend of mine invested in one in her tiny village about 20 yrs. ago. They were never told how loud it would be but she still gets her money monthly. Nightmare for those living very close.

 

20 years ago is a long time in modern technology:

 

Quote

How noisy is a wind turbine? Modern wind turbines are remarkably quiet. It is one of the odd things about the anti-wind lobby that they often focus on noise as an issue, when in reality anyone who has stood close to a modern wind turbine knows how little noise they make.

 

The rules that must be followed to obtain planning consent state that if the noise level after modelling at nearby neighbours is less than 35 dB(A) then no further work is required and all is OK. 35 dB(A) is approximately the noise level inside a quiet library or a quiet whisper.

https://www.renewablesfirst.co.uk/windpower/windpower-learning-centre/how-much-noise-does-a-wind-turbine-make/

[Dembo 525]

There's one on a man-made hill near here I sometimes cycle up, that's been there for 20 years. Yes when you're at the top you certainly hear it, but only when you're at the top. It's a popular place for people to fly model planes so mostly you hear the noise of the engines on the way up and when you're at the top, assuming it's windy, as much as you hear the turbine the wind itself is just as loud. It seems there's a bit of a myth about the countryside being dead quiet, but there are plenty of places where you hear roads, train, tractors etc. etc.

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%BCner_Heiner

 

Spoiling the view I kind of understand, but then we've all become used to pylons and cables across the countryside. It's a minor thing really that people quickly get used to.  

[Fietsrad 432]

Refrigeration is another trick to sell stuff, to make money, to force people to use energy. Fridges are full of food and drink that does not need to be kept cool (drinks that keep for months etc usw). Yoghurt does not need to be refrigerated as long as it is not opened. Sliced cheese and butter only go off in summer when the temperature reaches 30° (plus).

 

Why do people buy such big fridges? I guess it is like buying cars that are bigger than needed😕

..

But what about processing and storing food to keep in the freezer? Could that make sense financially?

[snowingagain 5,465]

I store stuff in the fridge that does not have to be.  Because a few litres of milk rather than an empty space makes sense keeping it cool if it gets opened a lot.  Compared to empty space.

[fraufruit 42,671]

Remind me not to eat at your house, Fietsrad.

[scook17 292]

7 hours ago, murphaph said:

... refrigeration is one of the bigger consumers of electricity in the home....

 

I happened to track this over a couple of years (an engineer thing )

Highest consumption is typically:

 

Hot Water. This is likely the major consumer in the house. Heat pump drops energy consumption (maybe not price) by around 3x.

 

Fridges / Freezers. On 24/7 so really consume a lot of power. My 20 year old single height freezer consumed 4x as much power as the modern A+++ small chest freezer I replaced it with. Literally I saved the purchase cost of the new freezer in just a few years.

 

Washing Machine. Uses a lot of water and therefore energy. Almost all energy is consumed by heating the water. Use a cold wash or connect to the hot water system mixer so you can use water from a heat pump.

 

Dish washer. I connected directly to the hot water supply. Sure it gets a certain amount of cold water initially, but that's what it does anyway in the first rinse. After this it takes in hot water directly, and power consumption dropped about 3x. Sure the cost is shifted to the hot water heating, but depends on how you generate this. For me, it's solar, so effectively free.

 

Lights - No brainer to replace all lights with LEDs.

 

Computers - Network equipment consumes a huge amount as it's on 24/7. Add a smart plug or timer and turn it off at night. Saves a huge amount if you have switches. Turn off the fritz box at night. Retiring old kit, especially enterprise level kit, is a good idea.

 

Set top box / tv / other power vampires. Make sure you unplug them or use a smart plug/timer. Anything in 'standby', especially old stuff uses a lot of energy. The Denon TV receiver I had for example was using 30w when turned to standby, and 80w or so when powered.

 

I have a few spare timer plugs if anyone needs some. If you join either the Curry or Saturday night evenings out in Munich, I can leave them with someone who joins regularly.

[snowingagain 5,465]

So, a few hours with all the windows open as it got warm and sunny.  Shade temp got to 16.  But sun was shining.  So inside after 4 hours open windows full, inside went down to 19.  Closed them at 5 pm.  Temp now 21.

[scook17 292]

16 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Why do people buy such big fridges? I guess it is like buying cars that are bigger than needed😕

 

For comparison:

Regular sized upright fridge/freezer - 20kwh per month

Tiny Fridge - 8kwh per month

 

[mtbiking 1,914]

29 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Refrigeration is another trick to sell stuff, to make money, to force people to use energy. Fridges are full of food and drink that does not need to be kept cool (drinks that keep for months etc usw). Yoghurt does not need to be refrigerated as long as it is not opened. Sliced cheese and butter only go off in summer when the temperature reaches 30° (plus).

 

Why do people buy such big fridges? I guess it is like buying cars that are bigger than needed😕

Here’s our fridge. It came with the house and nowadays I can’t imagine how other people can live with those tiny fridges. 
 

It’s rated AAA, though 

 

 

[RedMidge 6,638]

25 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Refrigeration is another trick to sell stuff, to make money, to force people to use energy. Fridges are full of food and drink that does not need to be kept cool (drinks that keep for months etc usw). Yoghurt does not need to be refrigerated as long as it is not opened. Sliced cheese and butter only go off in summer when the temperature reaches 30° (plus).

 

Why do people buy such big fridges? I guess it is like buying cars that are bigger than needed😕

..

But what about processing and storing food to keep in the freezer? Could that make sense financially?

Short periods out of the fridge may be ok, but almost all dairy products need to be stored in the fridge . 

Do research - bacteria just love products as they warm up.!

Unless you have an ice house in the garden.  🙄

[murphaph 9,854]

skook that's a really good call on connecting the hot water to the dishwasher.