Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

575 posts in this topic

54 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It is never a good idea to pay these energy companies in advance. They go bust all the time and then your prepayments are gone. Pay the bare minimum each month and put the "top up" in a separate bank account for this purpose. We got burned when BEV went bust. Lesson learned. It's always better to owe them money than the other way around.

Good point. I’m quite sure our energy suppliers said we had to pay a monthly amount rather than by bill. Whenever we get the annual bill and they determine the ongoing monthly pre-payments, I change this online and reduce by 10%. That’s the maximum reduction allowed.  We usually only had to pay very little as back payment. Sometimes we get a refund. 

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After using a little less last year, they lowered our monthly payment from € 70 to € 30. We put it back up again. We don't think SWM will go bust and consider it pay as you go. Normally, I would like to pay less and invest the rest but with the market like it is now, it wouldn't really matter. BTW, our rate is still 29 cents. Hasn't gone up.

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currently, when you check the CHECK24 website for prices of electric power and natural gas, you'll find the Grundversorgung cheaper than any new contract that you can get. That is crazy. So, if your contract is up for renewal, or you received a letter telling you the price will be going up (which gives you the right to terminate the contract), you could simply let yourself "fall back" on Grundversorgung.


Our E.ON contract's price guarantee expired end of August, so they offered us a new fixed price (until end of 2024) contract with a price only 2 cents per kWh over the Grundversorgung rate. We took that, not just because of the price guarantee, but also because it is 100% Öko-Strom - unlike Grundversorgung, which is still the "conventional mix".

 

I feel sorry for people who have to tackle house payments, utility payments, higher cost of living... on an income that was barely enough before the crisis.

And I find it cynical, when politicians say stuff like "anybody can easily save 10% on their energy use". Even if everybody could save 10% on their usage, the price compared to last year would be easily 30% higher overall (power, gas or heating oil, fuel, even wood). Unless you have your own solar power, enough to not have to buy any electricity, and preferably an "island" system with ample battery capacity that doesn't rely on the public grid, you're going to have to hang tight for a long time. 

 

Yes, it does help to turn your heat down where possible, heat different rooms to different temperatures (depending on use), turn off electric devices (don't leave them in standby-mode), save where you can - and still be prepared to pay more than last year.

 

That's why grandma said: "have at least 6 months worth of expenses saved up in your bank account".
I'd personally add to that: "have another 2 months worth of expenses stored in the safe in your house as cash - in case you loose access to your bank account because of wide-spread power outages".

 

 

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@karin_brenig, it seems like a new feature to compare the Grundversorgung to all other offers. Fair though as it’s less. Our energy suppliers told me that new contracts are far more expensive than increases for existing customers. Maybe there’s a maximum increase term in existing contracts? Last October, our gas supplier couldn’t accept any new gas supply contracts. Pre-war. 

Our new monthly gas price from existing supplier is 137€ (100%+ kWh increase on previous year). Grundversorgung price 221€. Cheapest Check24 price 326€. . 

 

I can only add that from us having to change electricity supplier in October 2021, online prices are far higher (own websites and comparison websites) than calling directly. For electricity, calling directly cost 40% less than their own website and the comparison websites. Comparison websites apparently take a large commission. Worth the waiting time to call direct.

 

Our electricity Grundversorger gave us a price slightly less than we had paid before.

 

Pricing seems to be purposefully confusing. Especially when needing to calculate standing charges together with Kwh rates and gas cubic metre conversion to kWh.

 

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2 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Grundversorgung = Stadtwerke?

Usually, if you have a Stadtwerke, but not always. It is the largest supplier in your area by customer numbers I believe, so who the Grundversorger is can theoretically change from company to company, though rarely does in practice.

 

We also got a price increase that took us a few cents over the Grundversorgung rate but with a price guarantee until end of March next year (read: end of winter) and as we use a heat pump, the comfort of a price guarantee is worth the premium and anyway you can't just drop into the Grundversorgung by cancelling your old contract. You drop into the eye-wateringly expensive Ersatzversorgung first and stay there for 3 months unless you can argue your way out of it and into the Grundversorgung.

 

If we are faced with a substantial increase in March we will probably take the hit on the Ersatzversorgung and be really tight with energy usage for 3 months while hassling e.on to get into the Grundversorgung. 

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4 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Grundversorgung = Stadtwerke?

not necessarily - Grundversorgung is just the supplier that you are automatically signed up with when you live in a certain area and haven't picked a specific supplier via a contract.

 

It used to be the Grundversorger was in most cases more expensive than contracts you could get - with price guarantees, or bonus.

 

Where I live E.ON is the Grundversorger. We don't have Stadtwerke here - too small.

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16 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

Grundversorgung = Stadtwerke?

I was told that the company name on the meter is the Grundversorger. Ours are Engega and Eon. When my daughter moved to another Bundesland for uni, she didn’t have access to the meters. I just rang the local gemeine to ask and was given 2 possible Grundversorger. The address identified which it was even without meter number. 

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Looks like I am with the Grundversorger, Stadtwerke, very good.

 

I could certainly INCREASE my consumption by 10% but I hope to reduce it. Closed one Kippfenster yesterday, I had it open 24/7 for months.

 

Not used the heating yet. Should I put it on briefly to check that it works?

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"Being with" the Grundversorger doesn't necessarily mean you are on the Grundversorgung though (I think, can someone check that?). You may well have signed up to a better (at the time) product from the Grundversorger as most people would not have wanted to be on the (at the time, expensive) Grundversorgung rate. The Grundversorger might look more favourably on "their own" customers cancelling their contracts and move them quickly into the Grundversorgung from the Ersatzversorgung but that's certainly not guaranteed I would have thought. 

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1 hour ago, emkay said:

I was told that the company name on the meter is the Grundversorger. Ours are Engega and Eon. When my daughter moved to another Bundesland for uni, she didn’t have access to the meters. I just rang the local gemeine to ask and was given 2 possible Grundversorger. The address identified which it was even without meter number. 

This will not be guaranteed as the Grundversorger title can be passed from one company to the next if the latter gains more customers than the former.

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

"Being with" the Grundversorger doesn't necessarily mean you are on the Grundversorgung though (I think, can someone check that?). You may well have signed up to a better (at the time) product from the Grundversorger as most people would not have wanted to be on the (at the time, expensive) Grundversorgung rate. The Grundversorger might look more favourably on "their own" customers cancelling their contracts and move them quickly into the Grundversorgung from the Ersatzversorgung but that's certainly not guaranteed I would have thought. 

 

very easy - if you signed any contract, even with the Grundversorger in your area - you are not on Grundversorgung.

Grundversorgung is for people without any contract. Normally you would be in that temporarily, after moving into a new place. But, since there is no obligation to sign a contract, you could leave it at that "forever". I used to do just that for decades. Never bothered to find "the best deal" - because Grundversorgung seemed good enough for me. Probably wasted a lot of money over the years.
 

Only recently we have this "funny" situation, that Grundversorgung is cheaper than most contracts you can get (including the ones from your Grundversorger). Which is why even Verbraucherzentrale recommends that you cancel your contract immediately, when/if your current provider tells you they want to raise the price, and then "automatically" become a "customer" of your local Grundversorger (without contract). You don't have to do anything, they will write a letter informing you of your new provider and the prices. You can cancel Grundversorgung only by signing a contract with any provider (even the Grundversorger).

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There is talk of typical or average household costs but I just read about a Vermieter near me who offers many identical Dreiraumwohnungen. Monthly payments for heating vary between 30€ and 150€ (x5!).

 

Besides, is the average or Eckhaushalt figure calculated as mean or median or mode? 

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2 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

 

very easy - if you signed any contract, even with the Grundversorger in your area - you are not on Grundversorgung.

Grundversorgung is for people without any contract. Normally you would be in that temporarily, after moving into a new place. But, since there is no obligation to sign a contract, you could leave it at that "forever". I used to do just that for decades. Never bothered to find "the best deal" - because Grundversorgung seemed good enough for me. Probably wasted a lot of money over the years.
 

Only recently we have this "funny" situation, that Grundversorgung is cheaper than most contracts you can get (including the ones from your Grundversorger). Which is why even Verbraucherzentrale recommends that you cancel your contract immediately, when/if your current provider tells you they want to raise the price, and then "automatically" become a "customer" of your local Grundversorger (without contract). You don't have to do anything, they will write a letter informing you of your new provider and the prices. You can cancel Grundversorgung only by signing a contract with any provider (even the Grundversorger).

But if you cancel a contract with any supplier you land in the Ersatzversorgung for (max) 3 months first, right? The Ersatzversorger is the Grundversorger but the prices are expensive.

https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Vportal/Energie/Vertragsarten/Ersatzversorgung

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55 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

There is talk of typical or average household costs but I just read about a Vermieter near me who offers many identical Dreiraumwohnungen. Monthly payments for heating vary between 30€ and 150€ (x5!).

 

Besides, is the average or Eckhaushalt figure calculated as mean or median or mode? 

It is not perfect but I do think it's the correct way to provide a cap whilst aut the same time encouraging people to save energy. If you know that once you go over x,000kWh a year you are on your own, you will do your best to stay under it. We are in a proxy war and we should be doing our bit to keep our industries running.

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12 hours ago, murphaph said:

But if you cancel a contract with any supplier you land in the Ersatzversorgung for (max) 3 months first, right? The Ersatzversorger is the Grundversorger but the prices are expensive.

https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Vportal/Energie/Vertragsarten/Ersatzversorgung

 

not necessarily - Ersatzversorgung may (but doesn't automatically have to) be more expensive than Grundversorgung.

Where I live the prices for Ersatz- and Grundversorgung with electricity are identical. I don't know about gas - we are heating with oil.

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2 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

 

not necessarily - Ersatzversorgung may (but doesn't automatically have to) be more expensive than Grundversorgung.

Where I live the prices for Ersatz- and Grundversorgung with electricity are identical. I don't know about gas - we are heating with oil.

But you do land in the Ersatzversorgung first, right? If you are lucky the prices are the same but in our region they are not. The Ersatzversorgung is significantly more expensive. We need to be careful about giving out general information where there are significant regional differences in pricing and policy.

 

Anyone contemplating cancelling their contract in the hope of paying the Grundversorgung rate should check the following IMO:

1) Will I end up in the Ersatzversorgung first?

2) How much will I pay in the Ersatzversorgung?

3) Do I have a price guarantee that maybe takes me through the winter (the prices for the Ersatzversorgung could rocket as demand increases and supply dwindles), even if it's a bit more than the Grundversorgung (or Ersatzversorgung) for that matter?

 

I have seen people here on our local Facebook groups making blanket recommendations that people cancel their contracts and go to the Grundversorgung but it's definitely not that straightforward. A price guarantee is worth an awful lot going into this winter.

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I have fridge on 7 degrees at the moment.  No meat or fish, and any soft cheese disappears so fast it is unlikely to be dangerous.    So, which is going to kill me first, Legionella from showering in lukewarm water, or salmonella/E coli.    7 degrees outside this morning, still 21 in here.

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This may have already been answered. How much notice do they have to give you for raising prices? Oct. is almost here and we haven't gotten any notices.

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2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

This may have already been answered. How much notice do they have to give you for raising prices? Oct. is almost here and we haven't gotten any notices.

 

Grundversorger has to tell you six weeks before, any other supplier 1 month before a price hike.

 

Detailed read here:

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/energie/probleme-mit-vertraegen-und-rechnungen/preiserhoehungen-bei-strom-und-gas-was-ist-erlaubt-13201

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