Habeck claims anyone could quite easily use 10% less energy

[snowingagain 5,201]

As Keleth said, re your sister, they probably calculate heating from those radiator devices, and throw a bit of per M2 too into the mix.  Hot water from system is usually metered in each apartment.  Not perfect but sort of works.

 

Re your daughter, do you mean she has her own gas boiler for heating and hot water?

[Storydale 44]

On 4/16/2022, 8:52:02, Keleth said:

Well as it's the older generation that fucked up the planet for the younger generation I think the younger generation knows more about energy saving and what excess energy use leads to than we do.

Given that my dad (born 1928 and in the Marines during WW2) was the one that taught me the mantra "turn off the lights when you leave the room" and "don't stand there with the 'fridge open" and my mother (born 1934) who taught me to turn off the water when I brushed my teeth, I don't think you're targeting the right group.  I hear this "older generation" thing all the time, but I don't think it's them.  I was born in '62 and always reuse things, and did before it was a thing.  Not necessarily for the planet but to save money.  I always had the a/c set at a couple of degrees higher than most people and the heat set a couple of degrees lower.  (I lived in the US until I was almost 50.) Here in Germany, I wear warmer clothes and only use the radiator in the living room.  In the bedroom, we bundle under the covers.  We turn it on occasionally to dry things out a bit, but that's all.  
I see many of the younger generation tossing out stuff because they tire of it and making no attempt to "reduce, reuse, recycle."  Perhaps they know more about energy saving, but that doesn't mean they practice it.  I think these sweeping generalizations are misguided.

[Keleth 9,279]

1 hour ago, Storydale said:

Given that my dad (born 1928 and in the Marines during WW2) was the one that taught me the mantra "turn off the lights when you leave the room" and "don't stand there with the 'fridge open" and my mother (born 1934) who taught me to turn off the water when I brushed my teeth,

If your parents were like mine this was done down to cost rather than the actual saving of energy. Same way socks were darned, jumpers grandma had knitted were worn because it was cheaper than buying new stuff which today is exactly the opposite.Nothing is repaired as it´s cheaper to renew it.

The older generation (ie people like me) invented this throwaway culture.

[Gambatte 897]

22 hours ago, emkay said:

My SIL seems to have a huge gas consumption as a single person. She bought a 3 room ground floor 120sqm apartment in a 2 family house a few years ago. There’s one boiler, around 24 years old in the cellar. Her annual gas consumption is 22000kwh. 

From what I read around, 120qm and 22000 kWh/yr is unfortunately very realistic if the house is old. Number of people in the households plays only a small role. Best thing to do is probably to invite an Energieberater for a consultation on how to improve energy efficiency. I would expect the Energieberater can say which is best suited (most cost effective) for her particular household, and which other instead is "also ok, but not as good".

 

We are 3, house is 117qm, built 2019, takes ca 9700 kWh/yr.

[Fietsrad 386]

The reason does not matter so much, "saving" money is generally good.

 

I just wonder about heating and air conditioning systems, they probably still need expensive maintenance, if turned orf for a while aircon probably has to be rebooted for €$¥

[emkay 10,158]

51 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

The reason does not matter so much, "saving" money is generally good.

 

I just wonder about heating and air conditioning systems, they probably still need expensive maintenance, if turned orf for a while aircon probably has to be rebooted for €$¥

We had one air con unit in a room when we bought our house. It hadn’t been used for a few years. When my husband took over the room as his office, a service cost around 60€ last year.  Can’t remember what they did exactly. Something like clean/replace filters etc. 

[emkay 10,158]

3 hours ago, Storydale said:

Given that my dad (born 1928 and in the Marines during WW2) was the one that taught me the mantra "turn off the lights when you leave the room" and "don't stand there with the 'fridge open" and my mother (born 1934) who taught me to turn off the water when I brushed my teeth, I don't think you're targeting the right group.  I hear this "older generation" thing all the time, but I don't think it's them.  I was born in '62 and always reuse things, and did before it was a thing.  Not necessarily for the planet but to save money.  I always had the a/c set at a couple of degrees higher than most people and the heat set a couple of degrees lower.  (I lived in the US until I was almost 50.) Here in Germany, I wear warmer clothes and only use the radiator in the living room.  In the bedroom, we bundle under the covers.  We turn it on occasionally to dry things out a bit, but that's all.  
I see many of the younger generation tossing out stuff because they tire of it and making no attempt to "reduce, reuse, recycle."  Perhaps they know more about energy saving, but that doesn't mean they practice it.  I think these sweeping generalizations are misguided.

When I lived in the UK since childhood, my German dad, born 1935, would spot a room thermostat in anyone’s house and just turn it down. He’d say, that no one needs that kind of temperature and it costs too much. People probably thought he was mad though he had good point. I grew up with that mentality. Doors closed, lights off, no heating in bedrooms. Not easy to pinpoint which generation was/is most wasteful as far as energy consumption is concerned. 

[snowingagain 5,201]

OK while mulling over replacing  my gas cooker and crappy electric oven, has anyone any opinions on Instant Pots or similar.  I have used a conventional pressure cooker weekly for 20 years, great for cooking beans really fast and making stock at a fraction of the gas.  I use it for other things like soups and stews, but it gets a bit hit and miss then.  

[Fietsrad 386]

I remember getting on an empty train, a coach with compartments. Lights were on bright in all compartments. I turned them all down.

 

I think some compartment coaches are still in service on ICEs, they have a temperature switch. Dunno what happens if you turn it down.

Maybe the compartment is cooled, using more energy not less😕

[Fietsrad 386]

@snowingagain

I use a microwave (I think it is quite efficient) for nearly everything, except Proper Cooking, don't do much of that in summer.

[snowingagain 5,201]

10 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

@snowingagain

I use a microwave (I think it is quite efficient) for nearly everything, except Proper Cooking, don't do much of that in summer.

I use one too, for vegetables and such.  But they do not really work for things that require longer cooking like casseroles.  Or dried pulses. I mean you can do it.  But the microwave is on so long the energy savings dip.  And it would need a massive microwave to make coq au vin for 10.  But I guess you already know that.  

 

[snowingagain 5,201]

17 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

I remember getting on an empty train, a coach with compartments. Lights were on bright in all compartments. I turned them all down.

 

I think some compartment coaches are still in service on ICEs, they have a temperature switch. Dunno what happens if you turn it down.

Maybe the compartment is cooled, using more energy not less😕

I remember reading about an office in the 1970s.  Probably in the USA.  They turned the heating down to save money.  But it cost them more as, as you suggested, they just cooled the heated air down.   In the USSR they had Fernheizung you could not control.  Except by opening the windows.  I think this is still the case in some places there.

[jeba 4,347]

21 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

   In the USSR they had Fernheizung you could not control.  Except by opening the windows.  I think this is still the case in some places there.

 

It used to be like that in Eastern Germany as well. When we were in a Hotel I asked how to turn down the heating and  the receptionist told us to open the window. Problem was you got a headache from letting the polluted air in. That was in Leipzig 1986 or 1987.

[emkay 10,158]

26 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

 In the USSR they had Fernheizung you could not control.  Except by opening the windows.  I think this is still the case in some places there.

I remember this too. In the early 90’s I was in Moscow for a whole winter. Minus 20-30c outside, boiling hot indoors. State heating not controllable. Very interesting times when I leaned to drink pure vodka for meetings at any time of day. Requesting a mixer was rude!

[snowingagain 5,201]

Back to Instant Pots.  Any pros and cons from experience?

[LukeSkywalker 7,604]

10 minutes ago, emkay said:

Very interesting times when I learned to drink pure vodka for meetings at any time of day. Requesting a mixer was rude!

That‘s my girl 👻.

 

PS- Once I had a business meeting with 2 Russians in Kyiv in an Irish pub in the evening, but first they ordered a bottle of vodka. After 3 vodka, you were supposed to do a toast. I said:“To all the beautiful Russian women.“  Luckily, they accepted this as a toast.

 

Also, in Kyiv they have city heating. I opened all windows in winter since it was too hot in my apartment.

[snowingagain 5,201]

The problem with subsidising gas now is that alternatives suffer.  I think it would be better to subsidise all forms of energy, with an edge for renewables and insulation.   The reason that insulation is so crap in many places is it was discouraged as being uneconomic. Truly barking mad.  But I have been saying this for 30 years and I am beginning to not care anymore.   

[emkay 10,158]

9 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

The problem with subsidising gas now is that alternatives suffer.  I think it would be better to subsidise all forms of energy, with an edge for renewables and insulation.   The reason that insulation is so crap in many places is it was discouraged as being uneconomic. Truly barking mad.  But I have been saying this for 30 years and I am beginning to not care anymore.   

I was glad to have taken advantage of a free British Gas offer to insulate lofts and cavity walls about 16 Years ago. My neighbours thought this pointless at the time. Still a benefit for my tenant now. 
 

Re instant cook pots…I’ve no idea. My husband uses an old WMF Schnellkochtopf to make goulash. Sure he generally overcooks the meat. I vaguely read something about air cookers being great for all kinds of meals.  Not air fryer. 

[snowingagain 5,201]

10 minutes ago, emkay said:

I was glad to have taken advantage of a free British Gas offer to insulate lofts and cavity walls about 16 Years ago. My neighbours thought this pointless at the time. Still a benefit for my tenant now. 
 

Re instant cook pots…I’ve no idea. My husband uses an old WMF Schnellkochtopf to make goulash.

So, instant pots and similar are multi purpose.  You can use them as a trad pressure cooker.  But also as a rice cooker, or a slow cooker, or sous vide, and yoghurt making.  Great for casseroles etc.  They cost from 100 euros up though.  But compared to gas and their economy they could easily be worth it.

 

[Fietsrad 386]

I have Fernwaerme, it uses waste heat from a factory nearby, it is controllable, not used it for months, just hot water for an occasional bath. The heat is transported (as steam? or hot water?) in those huge metal pipes you often see in Neufuenfland.

 

Not been cooking much lately, eating a lot of muesli with fresh plums I gathered, that gave me enough energy in the hot weather. I just use a bit of hot water to soften the fruit. Bet that saves more than 10%😉

 

Could buying ready meals be a way to save energy?

Not for me, I buy ingredients and do the Verarbeitung/processing myself.