Stumped over UK national insurance contributions + German tax return

22 posts in this topic

There is something that I cannot get my head around. I had to submit two parallel tax returns for UK (2020-21 tax year) and Germany (2020 tax year), because I was a tax resident in the UK for that period (by number of days) and I was also partially resident in Germany (which required it anyway).

All was well with that. But I paid voluntary Class 2 national insurance contributions for the UK 2020-21 tax year on 3 December 2021 (due by 31 January 2022) after I had filled in my German tax return for 2020 in September 2021 (because the German system was actually more straightforward and I got it done first).

Now I am filling in just my German 2021 tax return (although I have asked to pay Class 2 NI contributions in the UK again for 2021-22, but have not heard back).

Confusion aside, my main question is this: is there anywhere on the German tax declaration form (I am using ELSTER), such as Beiträge zur ausländischen gesetzlichen oder privaten Kranken- und Pflegeversicherung, that I should add the information about voluntary Class 2 contributions? As I wrote above, I paid them on 3 December 2021 and this related to the 2020-21 tax year. And, second question, to which German tax year would it relate anyway, when the two do not quite coincide (my guess would be UK 2020-21 = German 2020, but not sure)?

Is there anyone that has also had this conundrum? My main concern is not so much the sums, but just making sure that I am faithfully reporting everything going on in my life to the Finanzamt.

 

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1 hour ago, Carlyle said:

And, second question, to which German tax year would it relate anyway, when the two do not quite coincide (my guess would be UK 2020-21 = German 2020, but not sure)?

The German tax year is easy, it's the calendar year.

So if you received income or paid something between 1. January and 31. December 2021, it belongs in the 2021 German tax return.

 

1 hour ago, Carlyle said:

But I paid voluntary Class 2 national insurance contributions for the UK 2020-21 tax year on 3 December 2021

 

my main question is this: is there anywhere on the German tax declaration form (I am using ELSTER), such as Beiträge zur ausländischen gesetzlichen oder privaten Kranken- und Pflegeversicherung, that I should add the information about voluntary Class 2 contributions?

Anlage Vorsorgaufwand, line 6: https://www.steuerklassen.com/content/anlage_vorsorgeaufwand_2021.pdf

6249efaee19a9_2022-04-0321_04_02-082-Anl

 

Use the ECB exchange rate of the day you paid, 03.12.2021, to convert the GBP amount into €: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/policy_and_exchange_rates/euro_reference_exchange_rates/html/index.en.html

6249f11f8a9ff_2022-04-0321_10_12-Eurofor

 

The Finanzamt will ask you for proof, you can send that proof by letter or as a pdf attachment (the Finanzamt only accepts pdf files) via ELSTER, through a "Belegnachreichung".

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12 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

The Finanzamt will ask you for proof, you can send that proof by letter or as a pdf attachment (the Finanzamt only accepts pdf files) via ELSTER, through a "Belegnachreichung".

 

The only question I would still have is: do I wait for the Finanzamt to ask me for proof... or is it better to already include this as an accompanying document in my tax declaration?

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You can't attach anything to the tax return in ELSTER.

Officially, you are supposed to wait until they ask you for proof, but since they will for sure ask for this proof and since you already have a Steuernummer from your 2020 Bescheid, just do a Belegnachreichung immediately after you have filed your 2021 tax return and attach the pdf file with the proof.

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14 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

You can't attach anything to the tax return in ELSTER.

Officially, you are supposed to wait until they ask you for proof, but since they will for sure ask for this proof and since you already have a Steuernummer from your 2020 Bescheid, just do a Belegnachreichung immediately after you have filed your 2021 tax return and attach the pdf file with the proof.

 

Many thanks, you are incredibly helpful.

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Carlyle, can I ask what you plan on providing as proof?  While you can show that a payment has gone to HMRC from your bank, you don't get a receipt as such saying "Paid NIC on 'date'".  I asked the NIC team last week how to get proof of payment and they simply pointed me at a printout of the NI record showing the year is "full".  I am not sure either would be sufficient for the FA?  When my wife paid voluntary contributions in 2019 relating to 2017/18 her NI record simply shows "Year full" and "You have contributions from voluntary 52 weeks" but no dates of payment or amount...

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I asked HMRC specifically for a receipt for the last 10 years, as I forgot to send this to the FA.( Should have read more TT NI threads!)

I telephoned the HMRC and around 5 weeks later a suitable letter arrived here.

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16 minutes ago, HH_Sailor said:

I asked HMRC specifically for a receipt for the last 10 years, as I forgot to send this to the FA.( Should have read more TT NI threads!)

I telephoned the HMRC and around 5 weeks later a suitable letter arrived here.

Is it possible to claim this money back after such a long time has elapsed ?

 

How many years back can you claim ???

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27 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Is it possible to claim this money back after such a long time has elapsed ?

 

How many years back can you claim ???

No

 

As I understand:

Only the last 4 years, unless you can prove 'new information'.

Not reading/understanding the rules doesn't count (my bad)

 

See also :

https://www.test.de/Steuerbescheid-aendern-Auch-vier-Jahre-spaeter-moeglich-5364693-0/

 

 

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3 hours ago, GaryC said:

Carlyle, can I ask what you plan on providing as proof?  While you can show that a payment has gone to HMRC from your bank, you don't get a receipt as such saying "Paid NIC on 'date'".  I asked the NIC team last week how to get proof of payment and they simply pointed me at a printout of the NI record showing the year is "full".  I am not sure either would be sufficient for the FA?  When my wife paid voluntary contributions in 2019 relating to 2017/18 her NI record simply shows "Year full" and "You have contributions from voluntary 52 weeks" but no dates of payment or amount...

 

I was planning to provide two screenshots from my gov.uk online account (HMRC section) which shows the sum and the date. One screenshot shows "Breakdown of payments for this year", while the other shows "Payments/credits received". Accompanied by a bank statement for the relevant month, showing the payment of the same sum to HMRC. As you say, there is nothing to actually show it is NIC. I also have a "Self Assessment Statement" which shows this sum as well... although who is to say that this is NIC and not actually tax to be paid? I suppose all I can do is send what I can and, if the FA wants more, I might have to ask HMRC if they would provide an actual letter saying I had paid specifically NIC to this amount.

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Interesting.  Class 2 may of course be slightly different that Class 3 NIC as it is or at least can be, paid via the self assessment system.  Keep us informedB)

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As evidence of payment, can one simply attach the relevant statement from the bank account?

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Who knows.  It will probably just say "HMRC NICO", which we now stands for National Insurance Contributions Office" but the FA will just see a payment to HMRC.

  

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My bank statement just says "HMRC - ACCOUNTS OF"... But then that is maybe what you would expect from a bank transfer, which is hardly going to itemise everything...

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That will be a general reference to Accounts Office Shipley or Cumbernauld depending on which one deals with your tax payments generally.

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Funnily, before April 2023 I plan to make a huge payment of backdated contributions. I genuinely wonder if I can tell the FA this? Surely not?!?

 

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In your German tax return, they will count as Sonderausgaben in the year you paid them.

It's the same with backdated contributions to German public pension insurance (DRV - Deutsche Rentenversicherung), they count in the year they are paid, no matter "for" which year they were.

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