The War in Ukraine

2,484 posts in this topic

28 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

 

Where does the coal and diesel come from?

Fair enough with electricity, that just grows on trees.

 

People need to stop just focusing on the energy issue. It's not about being cold, it's about the squeezing of commodities leading to hyper inflation and interest rates hikes. Loads of people are in debt up to their eyeballs and will be utterly screwed.

There is a third world war, and you are talking about rising interest rates. 

 

Unbelievable degradation of morality, Eric. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

There is a third world war, and you are talking about rising interest rates. 

 

Unbelievable degradation of morality, Eric. 

 

It isn't WW3 unless we actively get involved. If we actively get involved it's End of Days anyway.

 

I'm immoral again eh. Good stuff.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, murphaph said:

We need stuff from them and they need stuff from us. The "meaningless shite" you mention includes stuff like computer chips and software, MRI scanners and other medical equipment, essential drugs etc., or do you think the Russian economy can be run using abacuses and doc leaves? They have become dependent on the west for huge amounts of things that ordinary people need and expect to be available. On the other hand, they sell commodities to us which are essential, but being commodities, can actually be sourced elsewhere. The hint is in the name. Sure, the price is then driven up as supply is reduced, but supply does not completely cease, it gets squeezed. Supplies of specialist western goods to Russia are completely ceasing. Even Chinese made tech will not be allowed to go to Russia if it contains any US, UK or EU tech, which most things do. The Russians are fucked. We're in for a rough ride, but Russia is fucked. Their economy is tiny compared to ours. China will NOT risk sanctions over Russia. It is a tiny market for China compared to the west. It will remain so as its population is just way smaller and relatively much poorer (thanks to it being a kleptocracy where, despite the mineral wealth, ordinary people are not well off at all).

 

We can even substitute which crops we grow. Irish farmers are being urged right now to so sow more cereals for example. Typically we would not do that because it rains too much in Ireland to produce very good wheat, but it's still ok to use and can be used if better Ukrainian, Russian or Canadian wheat is in short supply. This can happen across Europe. We ration meat production and produce more cereals. Instead of red meat several times a week, we eat it once or twice. Not going to kill anyone. Gas can be supplied from the US. Indeed we may need to frack our own gas if we have no other alternatives. Medium term watch how fast the EU's energy policy changes to wean us off our dependency on all fossil fuels for good. This crisis will deliver more real change towards renewables than ten thousand Fridays for Future protests.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this land grab was more about securing Ukraine's rare earth metals to be honest, as Putin knows we will need less and less Siberian oil and gas regardless.

 

I disagree but hope you are correct.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

 

It isn't WW3 unless we actively get involved. If we actively get involved it's End of Days anyway.

 

I'm immoral again eh. Good stuff.

It's 1939 now.

 

The Winter War between USSR and Finland (November 1939 - March 1940). Yes, it was already WWII even though the whole world was not involved. 

 

There is still a chance to stop it now. But, as I wrote before, nobody in the West will do it, nobody. 

 

There will be a nuclear war, but not end of days.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

It's 1939 now.

 

The Winter War between USSR and Finland (November 1939 - March 1940). Yes, it was already WWII even though the whole world was not involved. 

 

There is still a chance to stop it now. But, as I wrote before, nobody in the West will do it, nobody. 

 

There will be a nuclear war, but not end of days.

 

How do you suggest the West stops it?

Oh, wait... I seem to recall you endorsing the idea of a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Moscow.
Please correct me if I misremembered.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

 

How do you suggest the West stops it?

Oh, wait... I seem to recall you endorsing the idea of a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Moscow.
Please correct me if I misremembered.

 

The Russians always accuse others of what they are planning to do themselves. The West does not understand this, even though you as a Russian propaganda messenger are already saying the quiet part loud: they will at some point shoot nuclear rockets. Does not matter what the West does or does not, this will happen. 

 

Now, I don't know how to stop Russia. I really don't know, I am not a military expert. I just believe that it is not too late, and if the West acts now, there will be less loss of life. 

 

I believe there is a chance to stop Russia, but for now, the economic weapon must be applied in full force. Then China should be pressured to impose sanctions, too. The US can do it. They can lower customs fees on China goods as compensation. China has also some imperialistic ambitions, but they are economical. So, pressure can be exercised on China. 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Eric7 said:

Loads of people are in debt up to their eyeballs and will be utterly screwed.

 

They'd better get their ducks in a row, then.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These bloody Russians are offering cease fire evacution routes only to Belarus and Russia, which of course the Ukrainian leadership is refusing. Who in their right mind wants to flee to enemy terrain?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then to be paraded on TV as a propaganda tool like Saddam Hussein did in 1991, being told what to say whilst being threatened with retaliation against family members if they did not.Russia is and has been for many years run bun by thugs with very low moral standards. Putin obviously aspires to be another Stalin.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

Russia has told Ukraine it is ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv meets a list of conditions, the Kremlin spokesman said on Monday.

Dmitry Peskov said Moscow was demanding that Ukraine cease military action, change its constitution to enshrine neutrality, acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.

It was the most explicit Russian statement so far of the terms it wants to impose on Ukraine to halt what it calls its "special military operation", now in its 12th day.

Peskov told Reuters in a telephone interview that Ukraine was aware of the conditions. "And they were told that all this can be stopped in a moment."

There was no immediate reaction from the Ukrainian side.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, bramble said:

These bloody Russians are offering cease fire evacution routes only to Belarus and Russia, which of course the Ukrainian leadership is refusing. Who in their right mind wants to flee to enemy terrain?

The Ukrainian army refuses it not because it wants to prevent people from leaving for Russia, but because these convoys will be shot at, and Ukrainian army has no way to prevent that. Probability 100%. Roads leading to the West are not (yet) controlled by Russian army, so there is non zero chance people can use them. 

 

The Russians at the moment use civilians as hostages. 

 

P.S. The biggest number of refugees per capita is hosted by Moldova now, the poorest country in Europe. It is a shame we were ignorant on their own Russia-fueled war for years, we let Russian soldiers through Ukrainian territory for decades. Well, we are paying the price for this ignorance. I do not wish the West to pay the same price for exactly the same ignorance. But the button has been pressed. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, yourkeau said:

This changed with John Demjanjuk's trial and opened a can of worms.  Oskar Gröning was "just counting the gold teeth of murdered prisoners", and hi was presecuted for that. 

 

 

Oskar Gröning was a German SS concentration camp guard and John Demanjuk was  in the Red Army and taken prisoner by the Germans, he switched sides and  subsequently also worked as a concentration camp guard and btw. was a Uranian. Neither could be described as regular soldiers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Oskar Gröning was a German SS concentration camp guard and John Demanjuk was  in the Red Army and taken prisoner by the Germans, he switched sides and  subsequently also worked as a concentration camp guard and btw. was a Uranian. Neither could be described as regular soldiers.

Gröning was not a guard. Whatever, he himself at some point admitted he was complicit. John Demjanuk was a Polish citizen of Ukrainian ethnicity, but neither Poland nor Ukraine wanted him back, denying any citizenship rights. This is how he ended up in Germany. 

 

Quote

 

Upon his return to Germany, he led a normal life, reluctant to talk about his time in Auschwitz. However, more than 40 years later, after learning about Holocaust denial, he decided to make public his activities at Auschwitz. He openly criticised those who denied the events that he had witnessed and the ideology to which he had subscribed. Gröning was notable as a German willing to make public statements about his experience as an SS soldier, which were self-incriminating and which exposed his life to public scrutiny. In particular, he confessed to stealing jewellery and money from gas chamber victims for his personal benefit.

 

 

You all are defending people before they even stand any kind of court, and denying that they themselves might admit guilt. What is the purpose of this apology? 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

The Ukrainian army refuses it not because it wants to prevent people from leaving for Russia, but because these convoys will be shot at, and Ukrainian army has no way to prevent that. Probability 100%. Roads leading to the West are not (yet) controlled by Russian army, so there is non zero chance people can use them. 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bramble said:

These bloody Russians are offering cease fire evacution routes only to Belarus and Russia, which of course the Ukrainian leadership is refusing. Who in their right mind wants to flee to enemy terrain?

"Only" Where do get this information from? May be you can check your info before posting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I should have used amoral instead of immoral with regards to Erik/Jeba

 

And not so much as an insult but as a descriptor.

Jeba has been consistent and clear in this thread, if it has negative (mostly economic) consequences, it should not be done. That is his decision and that seems to be his MO.

But it is something one can progam into a simple script. < if price goes up: print('bad')>

Computer programs don't have morals.

If one bases their moral choices on something so simple as a delta price, then one can be said to be amoral.

Your 'moral compass' can be replaced with two lines of code.

 

As for not believing the 'mainstream' media... At least you didn't say (out loud) you are 'doing your own research'. Hint: using 'mainstream' media in quotes gives it away. Means you don't believe what journalists tell you, we get it. But the rest of us are pretty sure the nytimes or guardian etc etc is not controlled by lizard people.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, mseth said:

"Only" Where do get this information from? May be check your info before posting.

 

I heard it on the Tagesschau and that the suggested routes were all unnaceptable. Did I misunderstand something? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, bramble said:

 

I heard it on the Tagesschau and that the suggested routes were all unnaceptable. Did I misunderstand something? 

One corridor will be opened from the capital Kyiv to the city of Gostomel, two from the port city of Mariupol to Zaporizhzhia, Ukraine as well as Rostov-on-Don, ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov told a daily briefing in Moscow.

Two more safe passages will connect the city of Sumy with the Ukrainian city of Poltava and the Russian city of Belgorod, and also the city of Kharkiv with Belgorod

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boris Johnson and Petti Patel talked about the UK being very generous with regard to Ukranians entering the UK but forgot to mention they can't actually enter. Unless of course they've got a couple of million for a golden visa and a few thousand for Tory party funds of course.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-60652914

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now