The War in Ukraine

[jeba 4,364]

16 minutes ago, yesterday said:

But Ukraine did not start it and they are entitled to defend them self's

I'm not even sure they didn't start attacks on the separatists. But be that as it may be, having a right to do something doesn't mean it's wise to do it. And in this case it's clearly not. What's the point of having the country turned into a cemetery which looks like Dresden in 1945 or Mariupol in 2022 in order to keep control of separatist regions which you don't even know if they want to be kept by the majority? It's just not worth it, too much suffering and trauma of innocents.

[fraufruit 42,199]

7 minutes ago, jeba said:

I'm not even sure they didn't start attacks on the separatists.

 

They didn't. Now what?

 

Be that as it may my ass, Comrade.

[yesterday 2,022]

14 minutes ago, jeba said:

I'm not even sure they didn't start attacks on the separatists. But be that as it may be, having a right to do something doesn't mean it's wise to do it. And in this case it's clearly not. What's the point of having the country turned into a cemetery which looks like Dresden in 1945 or Mariupol in 2022 in order to keep control of separatist regions which you don't even know if they want to be kept by the majority? It's just not worth it, too much suffering and trauma of innocents.

As already said I hate all the bad things that are going on in the Ukraine.

 

We will never really know, if the people in the east of Ukraine would want to be with Russia or not, because we will never get a fair vote until the war finishes and probably not after the war ends one way or another.

 

You can guess one way others will guess another way.

 

I think that as we will not get a fair poll, we have to go along with what the current Government in Ukraine wants, which is to fight Russia.

 

Some people value the right of people to fight over there nice buildings, Dresden is a nice place in 2023.

 

Where did you see Ukraine is calling up over 60 year olds ?, I did a quick search and could not find it, still 18 to 60

 

 

After the first invasion of 2014, both sides were firing shells at each other on a daily basis until the second invasion.

 

 

[jeba 4,364]

2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

They didn't. Now what?

What of what I wrote should change because of that (IF you're right)?

[jeba 4,364]

2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

I think that as we will not get a fair poll, we have to go along with what the current Government in Ukraine wants, which is to fight Russia.

Do we? Why?

Quote

Where did you see Ukraine is calling up over 60 year olds ?

 I think it was in the talkshow of Markus Lanz ( not sure though).

[AlexTr 19,735]

10 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

They didn't. Now what?

 

Be that as it may my ass, Comrade.

 

More performative obtuseness from jeba...just like his repetition of the questions that have already been answered. 

[jeba 4,364]

 

5 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

More performative obtuseness from jeba...just like his repetition of the questions that have already been answered. 

Really? Can you provide a link to your answers?

[AlexTr 19,735]

5 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

More performative obtuseness from jeba...just like his repetition of the questions that have already been answered. 

 

[fraufruit 42,199]

You can say that again.

[jeba 4,364]

1 minute ago, fraufruit said:

You can say that again.

Does it get more substance by repetition?

[fraufruit 42,199]

No. Neither do your observations.

[BethAnnBitt 2,963]

20 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

No. Neither do your observations.

Exactly, besides which, the idiom “you can say that again” means “I completely agree with you” and has null to do with repetition. 🥱

[fraufruit 42,199]

Or both! Some people need repetition.

[murphaph 9,814]

5 hours ago, jeba said:

You mean as those of e.g. (Northern-)Ireland, Sudan, Czechoslovakia, Yougoslavia, China or Korea?

Are you saying that Ukraine's borders are not sovereign jeba? 

[MikeMelga 7,312]

2 hours ago, jeba said:

Russia can replace lost troops, Ukraine can't. They are already drawing those aged above 60.

This has been discussed. Ukraine has around 260.000 active troops. They don't need to draw those over 60. There are over 3 million able men they can call. 

None of them is about to run out of men. It's all about tactical positioning, logistics, weapons and ammo.

 

I think this will be the last major russian offensive. Putin will have serious internal problems if this fails. 

To be honest, I don't know what to make of this. If Putin really wants to delay outcome until he's dead, it would make more sense not to attack.

Or they still think they can inflict serious damage and force Ukraine to negotiate.

[MikeMelga 7,312]

2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Yep, plenty more criminal prisoners.

They gave up on that. Prisoners now know they will not survive, so they don't join. They are forcibly recruiting from poor areas.

[jeba 4,364]

35 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Are you saying that Ukraine's borders are not sovereign jeba? 

No, but as the examples I mentioned are showing, that doesn't mean they are sacrosanct. Borders can be changed. Has happened often.

[murphaph 9,814]

Just now, jeba said:

No, but as the examples I mentioned are showing, that doesn't mean they are sacrosanct. Borders can be changed. Has happened often.

Times change jeba. It's no longer tolerated to change borders by force of arms and that's what this comes down to ultimately. If we allow it to Ukraine, don't complain when your country has its borders changed by Russia in a few years, perhaps under a less reliable POTUS who isn't prepared to back us up. You might one day be very glad that there's a well armed Ukraine between us and Russia :-)

[murphaph 9,814]

10 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

This has been discussed. Ukraine has around 260.000 active troops. They don't need to draw those over 60. There are over 3 million able men they can call. 

None of them is about to run out of men. It's all about tactical positioning, logistics, weapons and ammo.

 

I think this will be the last major russian offensive. Putin will have serious internal problems if this fails. 

To be honest, I don't know what to make of this. If Putin really wants to delay outcome until he's dead, it would make more sense not to attack.

Or they still think they can inflict serious damage and force Ukraine to negotiate.

Putin is surrounded by yes men, afraid to tell him the truth, if they themselves are even privy to it. The Russian state is built on lies and corruption, from the top to the bottom but also from the bottom to the top. He may well still believe that a victory, at least in the annexed (in illegal Russian law only) territories is possible. Sure, Hitler was still commanding non-existent armies days before he topped himself in a bunker. Putin probably won't last that long however. 

 

I haven't seen ANY 60 year old looking soldiers on TV. Would UA be able to hide them from the press if they existed?

[fraufruit 42,199]

17 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

They gave up on that. Prisoners now know they will not survive, so they don't join. They are forcibly recruiting from poor areas.

 

Wagner says they gave up on it. Russia is still doing it. 

 

• 02/11/2023 Russia is recruiting prison inmates to fight in the war against Ukraine, promising early pardons in return. Will the men really be released as promised after their deployment? Advertisement Reports about the recruitment of prisoners in Russian prisons for the war against Ukraine first surfaced in July 2022.