The War in Ukraine

3,137 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Got a source for that statement ?

 

From a recognized reputable source ?

 

Only I do not see it on the BBC

 

Reputable source is subjective - the BBC is anything but reputable imo.

 

It was widely reported at the time, originating from an article in Ukrainska Pravda:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/05/5/7344096/

 

"As soon as the Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich/Medinsky, following the outcome of Istanbul, had agreed on the structure of a future possible agreement in general terms, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson appeared in Kyiv almost without warning.

"Johnson brought two simple messages to Kyiv. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not. We can sign [an agreement] with you [Ukraine], but not with him. Anyway, he will screw everyone over", is how one of Zelenskyy's close associates summed up the essence of Johnson's visit.

Behind this visit and Johnson's words, there is much more than a simple reluctance to get involved in agreements with Russia.

Johnson’s position was that the collective West, which back in February had suggested Zelenskyy should surrender and flee, now felt that Putin was not really as powerful as they had previously imagined.
Moreover, there is a chance to "press" him. And the West wants to use it."

A quick search throws up lots of other articles like this one:

High-ranking U.S. official: Russians were ready, but everything was ruined by one man

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19 minutes ago, spleen69 said:

 

Reputable source is subjective - the BBC is anything but reputable imo.

 

It was widely reported at the time, originating from an article in Ukrainska Pravda:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/articles/2022/05/5/7344096/

 



A quick search throws up lots of other articles like this one:

High-ranking U.S. official: Russians were ready, but everything was ruined by one man

 

 

Humm, pravda.com is 

According to  Pravda - Wikipedia

 

Pravda is a Russian broadsheet newspaper, and was the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, when it was one of the most influential papers in the country with a circulation of 11 million. The newspaper began publication on 5 May 1912 in the Russian Empire, but was already extant abroad in January 1911. It emerged as a leading newspaper of the Soviet Unio ...

 

 

Do you not find it at least a bit strange, that a Russian backed site is pushing the kinda bollocks you are talking.

 

Your other link  B92 - Wikipedia

 

Seems its a Serbia based organization, with no particular reputation

 

Provide us with some links to something that has a reputation for safe and reliable news, not twitter feeds or pro Russian media

 

Do you really not know how to select good news sources, you are talking out of your spleen

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1 minute ago, yesterday said:

 

 

Humm, pravda.com is 

According to  Pravda - Wikipedia

 

Pravda is a Russian broadsheet newspaper, and was the official newspaper of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, when it was one of the most influential papers in the country with a circulation of 11 million. The newspaper began publication on 5 May 1912 in the Russian Empire, but was already extant abroad in January 1911. It emerged as a leading newspaper of the Soviet Unio ...

 

 

Do you not find it at least a bit strange, that a Russian back site is pushing the kinda bollocks you are talking.

 

Your other link  B92 - Wikipedia

 

Seems its a Serbia based organization, with no particular reputation

 

Provide us with some links to something that has a reputation for safe and reliable news, not twitter feeds or pro Russian media

 

Do you really not know how to select good news sources, you are talking out of your spleen

 

Sigh. :(

 

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ is very much a pro Ukrainian website (propaganda even) and has absolutely nothing to do with the Russian/Soviet newspaper of the same name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainska_Pravda

 

At least make the effort to go to the website before typing out all this crap.

 

In case you are unaware - "Pravda" means "truth" in both Ukrainian and Russian.

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36 minutes ago, spleen69 said:

"Johnson brought two simple messages to Kyiv. The first is that Putin is a war criminal; he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they are not. We can sign [an agreement] with you [Ukraine], but not with him. Anyway, he will screw everyone over", is how one of Zelenskyy's close associates summed up the essence of Johnson's visit.

 

If this is true, it is the only smart thing Johnson ever did.

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10 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Fuck negotiation with this war criminal.

 

2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

If this is true, it is the only smart thing Johnson ever did.

 

Yeah, fuck doing what Ukraine actually wanted to do.
The thousands of lives lost since then don't really matter.

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Don't blame any of the young Russian guys heading for thr nearest border to escape being conscripted, but its too early to speak of a mass desertion.  The population of Russia is around 143 million, so even tens of thousands fleeing, is only a smallish drop in the ocean in relative terms. They will also manage to coerce some erstwhile Ukraninans into fighting for them. Putin sadly just sees them all as cannon fodder. However poorly trained and motivated they are, there are alot of them. Sadly, I can see this dragging on well into next year. 

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The Russian troops have been deserting and surrendering en masse since Putin invaded. They will continue to do so and that is one reason they are losing the war.

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45 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

Don't blame any of the young Russian guys heading for thr nearest border to escape being conscripted, but its too early to speak of a mass desertion.  The population of Russia is around 143 million, so even tens of thousands fleeing, is only a smallish drop in the ocean in relative terms. They will also manage to coerce some erstwhile Ukraninans into fighting for them. Putin sadly just sees them all as cannon fodder. However poorly trained and motivated they are, there are alot of them. Sadly, I can see this dragging on well into next year. 

The absolute number however is perhaps less important for Russia's future. The ones fleeing are the better off, better educated ones who can see what's going on and have the means to make their escape. These are the ones that contribute most to Russia's GDP. There is a proper brain drain happening right now in Russia. Many left already before the mobilisation.

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

The absolute number however is perhaps less important for Russia's future. The ones fleeing are the better off, better educated ones who can see what's going on and have the means to make their escape. These are the ones that contribute most to Russia's GDP. There is a proper brain drain happening right now in Russia. Many left already before the mobilisation.

Exactly. I have a russian colleague (with Ukranian origin) and he worked with a large IT company in Russia. He said he has CVs from 250 colleagues that want to get out, almost all engineers.

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Yep. I guess many of us have worked with Russians (before February) who are here because they hate what Russia has become under Putin. There are loads more still inside Russia...but not for long. The mobilisation removed any doubt in their minds about staying.

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

The Russian troops have been deserting and surrendering en masse since Putin invaded. They will continue to do so and that is one reason they are losing the war.

I think Putin's days are numbered, he's gone too far this time...

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48 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yep. I guess many of us have worked with Russians (before February) who are here because they hate what Russia has become under Putin. There are loads more still inside Russia...but not for long. The mobilisation removed any doubt in their minds about staying.

I spent 3 years in Qatar in the '80s, I had a Russian friend, who worked for a German waste management firm, he was good company, we saw off plenty of Tiger beer and Smirnoff Black Label. The good old days...

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35 minutes ago, yesterday said:

We should have a way for him to leave with at least some face, he is like a cornered animal at the moment and could lash out 

 

What way would that be? He would lose more face if he did what we wanted.

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I know, I cannot think of any way he can leave with some face left, Ukraine is currently saying they want everything back and will not stop until they get it.

So the only ways out for him are bad, ie he resigns or he is forced out by his collogues, I just do not see which one it will be. But either way it will be hard for him.

 

Of course the other way he can kinda leave is by him starting a very big war, he dies so do we.

 

It would be better if he could leave with something, then he can claim its not a total loss, and save face, but when you consider everybody's position at the moment, thats not going to happen., This corned animal could just bite back

 

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1 minute ago, yesterday said:

It would be better if he could leave with something

 

He could walk out now. He has billions somewhere.

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Sure, but dictators like being dictators, its what they live for 

 

Saddam Hussain could have walked away as well, but once a dictator, always a dictator ...

 

These kinda of people live for the power and will do a lot to retain it

 

As said, before Russia is the biggest country in the world and its very de populated, Why does Russia need more land ???, O yes because its lead by a dictator.

 

 

Even in democracies it can sum times be hard to rid of the TOP Person, think of all the stuff Trump said.

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