The War in Ukraine

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  • Ukrainian officials condemned a video that appears to show Russian soldiers castrating a captive.

  • Experts largely concurred that the footage is plausible and shows a man being mutilated.

  • A Ukrainian MP, Inna Sovsun, told Insider this was one of just "hundreds" of cases.

here

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On 30/07/2022, 13:50:41, fraufruit said:

Pay wall.

 

It was briefly behind a pay wall, but it's now free to access again. Strongly recommended reading.

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On 2.7.2022, 13:27:27, MikeMelga said:

Are you for real??? Sure, Putin grew a conscience over the weekend!

Whether it happened over a weekend or not, food exports are happening.

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On 28.5.2022, 23:32:25, BethAnnBitt said:

As detailed in the above articles, people have had their IDs and phones taken away, been separated from family members, been sent to “camps” against their will, …  These are violations of international law.  Sounds like prison camp.

 

 

This is the experience one of the Ukrainians who had been taken to Russia and "fled" from there (having been given money for a ticket by the Russians): https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/anything-seemed-better-than-lying-dead-in-mariupol-ukrainians-speak-about-being-taken-to-russia-a-989f32dd-dc2d-48ff-9aa5-0fbcc32c7ef9

 

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"The Russians acted as if they were helping us," Krasnikov recounts, with astonishment in his voice.

 

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Russian soldiers asked the fleeing Ukrainians whether they wanted to go to Russia or elsewhere in Ukraine. "In Ukraine," the responded, according to his account. A short time later, they were told that Ukrainian troops were shelling the escape corridor. "We're going to Russia," the soldiers told them

 

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"Can we say no?" he asked the Russians. He says they answered: "You can go wherever you want."

 

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"I'd love to say something bad," Krasnikov recounts, "but they took good care of me." There was food, and he had a bed in a four-person room. But he also had a bad feeling, because now others were writing his story – as that of a saved man.

 

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Krasnikov refused the Russian passport, but he did open a Russian bank account. He was given shaving cream and underwear. The regional administration bought him an old-fashioned mobile phone.

 

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"They wanted to make things easier for us," Krasnikov says, bitterly. He says many accepted it and that there had been no effort to resist or criticism. "We had no energy. Everyone was just happy to be safe." After a few days, a division became visible among the deportees – into "those who were grateful to Russia for the help and those who hated Russia."

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although the helpers did try to persuade them to stay, they ultimately paid for the ticket. After 35 hours on the train and an ensuing bus ride, Krasnikov and his fellow passengers arrived in the Estonian border town of Narva.

 

 

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3 hours ago, jeba said:

Whether it happened over a weekend or not, food exports are happening.

Nothing to do with conscience.

https://carnegieendowment.org/eurasiainsight/87576

 

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Moscow’s motives need some more explanation. One major factor in Russia’s decision to sign the agreement was Moscow’s partner states in the Middle East and North Africa. Since the beginning of March, the leaders of countries as diverse as Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Israel have all voiced their concern to Moscow—both formally and informally—over the blocking of grain exports via the Black Sea. Problems with food supplies, they argued, could destabilize the region, just as they did during the Arab Spring.

Another incentive for Moscow to sign the agreement was that unblocking Ukraine’s ports will also remove obstacles to Russia’s own grain and fertilizer exports. Easing sanctions to facilitate Russian agricultural exports wasn’t officially a part of the agreement, but was successfully negotiated in parallel with the United States and European Union.

 

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7 hours ago, jeba said:

This is the experience one of the Ukrainians who had been taken to Russia and "fled" from there (having been given money for a ticket by the Russians): https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/anything-seemed-better-than-lying-dead-in-mariupol-ukrainians-speak-about-being-taken-to-russia-a-989f32dd-dc2d-48ff-9aa5-0fbcc32c7ef9

Wonderful that his experience was "not so bad", but that doesn't negate all the horrible stuff that has verifiably happened to other Ukrainians.

https://www.grid.news/story/global/2022/07/21/the-ukraine-war-in-data-hundreds-of-thousands-of-ukrainians-forcibly-removed-from-their-land-to-russia/

BTW, my late MIL was one of those ethnic Germans referenced above who was forcibly deported from EE to the Soviet Union in 1944 (age 20) and it took her 5 years to be released from the camp in Donetsk where she was a slave laborer.  In the meantime her mother and young son were sent to a camp for those who couldn't work, and they both died there.  The current list of atrocities, such as rape, torture, taking children and giving them away to others, ... is also a part of our story.  So, in this family, personal experience leads us to believe credible stories of the more brutal type when it comes to what some Ukrainians have to say.  After all, it's happened before and is well documented.  🥲

 

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1 minute ago, jeba said:

(no idea whether it´s just Russian propaganda though, it was linked to at clearly pro-Russian website)

 

And you have no idea?

 

:lol:

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

 

And you have no idea?

 

:lol:

No. Do you? Given that in Eastern Ukraine a lage part of the population is culturally Russian  (and that Janucovic the last president before the revolution was pro-Russian as well) it seems plausible to me that they may support Putin. Someone must have voted for him.

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7 hours ago, jeba said:

This eye-witness (allegedly!) report is painting the Ukrainians as the bad guys (no idea whether it´s just Russian propaganda though, it was linked to at clearly pro-Russian website): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OysQ7yQl_o&t=1153s.

 

Well, this John Mark Dougan, the interviewer, seems to have an axe to grind with his native country, the US. He was sought by the FBI and fled the United States to Russia and has been living there since 2016, so yes, it is pro-Russian propaganda. I'm not providing any links as I don't know what to make of any of this, though he seems rather dubious to me. Google him and decide for yourself.

 

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3 hours ago, yesterday said:

Just think during winter time, will it be cheaper to go down the pub and have a few beers than stay at home, and keep the heating on a low setting ?

 

 

That's exactly what people used to do in the old days!

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Hey, come on,  Buying alcohol in a bar was never about keeping warm.  Not dissing it, but this is disingenuous.

 

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38 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Can't afford heating but can afford drinking down the pub. Ha!

While the wife and kids at home using the heating.

But has a long and noble history.  Hic.

 

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I met my first ever Ukrainian refugee a couple of hours ago. Out with puppy Mandy, who showed a keen interest in a hairy white dog of similar size with a pink ribbon.

I greeted the girl with the dog in German, a young teenager, who replied: " do you speak English?"

" Where are you from?"

" Ukraine."

 

We ended up walking for a while in the park while the dogs played together. ( Mandy ended up rolling around in some dog shit😟) but anyway..

 

The girl is with her mum and sister at a German family's place in the street where I have the office. She is doing an integration course but would like to return home as soon as possible.

 

I did not hassle her for details about how or why she got here. Her English isn't wonderful and my Russian or Ukrainian are non-existent. And too soon anyway. Maybe another time but it was nice to chat to her and she was happy to  have someone to talk to in English and share the dog's outing with.

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On 8/26/2022, 3:44:07, jeba said:

No. Do you? Given that in Eastern Ukraine a lage part of the population is culturally Russian  (and that Janucovic the last president before the revolution was pro-Russian as well) it seems plausible to me that they may support Putin. Someone must have voted for him.

Edited for the clarity:

 

Given that in Sudetenland Eastern Ukraine a lage part of the population is culturally German Russian  it seems plausible to me that they may support…

 

 

1938, that went really well, didn’t it

 

 

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2 hours ago, mako1 said:

Edited for the clarity:

 

Given that in Sudetenland Eastern Ukraine a lage part of the population is culturally German Russian  it seems plausible to me that they may support…

 

 

1938, that went really well, didn’t it

Apples and oranges...

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