The War in Ukraine

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38 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

It will take 10 years, at least and thats if things go right

 

 

 

 

Then it is good they have started now, long term I believe it is vital not to be dependant on energy from Russia.

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1 hour ago, El Jeffo said:

Tell it to Putin.

You do know that it's the Ukrainians who are blocking the ports, don't you? They don't trust Putin to not take advantage of them clearing the mines.

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

 

Then it is good they have started now, long term I believe it is vital not to be dependant on energy from Russia.

 

OK, but the focus at the moment is build back the same capacity from around the world in GAS. Where as I think this should be used as an ideal opportunity to build solar farms in the Sahara,  and cable the power to Europe. Which would be the Green thing to do. Of course getting rid of GAS completely is a very long term project, 10's of years.

 

But taking power from the Sahara, will off set some GAS burn and the more different ways you have to get energy means you are less dependent on just a couple of sources.

 

I often walk around Munich, and notice the huge apartment blocks, I guess 99 % are heated with GAS, it will take 10's of years to replace these heating systems, and thats not even started.

 

As we know landlords dont normally spend money on things that will make their tenants life cheaper, so we need laws to force landlords to install solar power stuff on all new roofs of (new) apartment buildings

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3 hours ago, yesterday said:

OK, but the focus at the moment is build back the same capacity from around the world in GAS. Where as I think this should be used as an ideal opportunity to build solar farms in the Sahara,  and cable the power to Europe.

Couldn't agree more about using the opportunity to get rid of gas but not sure I would want to put our electricity supply in the hands of the North African nations, better I think to develop our own capabilities with more solar, wind and really look again at what possibilities there are for a renaissance of  modern nuclear.

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Unbelievable how Germany is shooting herself into the foot: https://seekingalpha.com/news/3849658-canada-talking-with-germany-on-siemens-made-nord-stream-1-turbine-fix?mailingid=28093208&messageid=2900&serial=28093208.4054&source=email_2900&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=28093208.4054

Quote

Nord Stream 1 pipeline to supply gas to Europe is partly constrained as sanctions on Russia make it impossible for Siemens (OTCPK:SIEGY) to return the turbine being maintained in Canada, the companies said earlier this week.

 

 

As Heinrich Heine put it:

"Denk ich an Deutschland in der Nacht,

so bin ich um den Schlaf gebracht"

 

(deepl-translation: When I think of Germany at night, I am deprived of sleep)

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On 18/06/2022, 18:55:28, keith2011 said:

Sorry using handy

On 18/06/2022, 18:55:28, keith2011 said:

Sorry using handy

On 18/06/2022, 18:55:28, keith2011 said:

Sorry using handy, cannot delete anything

On 18/04/2022, 08:20:55, jeba said:

 

Sorry using mobile

 

 

Just think central Europe is going to finf it hard to generate sufficient power without nuclear power,  which is a no go for many. 

Look at Munich in winter, no saor for days/weeks no wind and very cold, means we need to import power

 

If we have to do that, we should get power from alot of different places so we are not dependant on any one source, even if some sources are more expensive

 

Sure we are dependant on Russia at the moment, mistakes of the past, which I do not blame, after it was cheap. 

 

In the future getting Sahara solar is bad but better than being 45 % dependant on gas from everywhere as its greener and less dependant on Russia, Middle East and other unstable places

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

In the future getting Sahara solar is bad but better than being 45 % dependant on gas from everywhere as its greener and less dependant on Russia, Middle East and other unstable places

 

Then dependent on the Sahara.

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The first thing you learn in the Middle East is khamsin: a wind from Africa which bring extreme heat wave and a lot of sand. You wash your car and your apartment windows, the next day it is covered with sand again. Last year the sand from Africa reached as far as southern Ukraine: the snow was colored in yellow, people were afraid it was some chemical pollution. 

 

Now, the dream of solar panels in Sahara. Forget about electricity storage and delivery, tell me how are you going to keep the massive solar panels sand-free? 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Why sahara? Solar panels lose efficiency when too hot. There are much more suitable places in europe.

 

2 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Now, the dream of solar panels in Sahara. Forget about electricity storage and delivery, tell me how are you going to keep the massive solar panels sand-free?

They won't use photovoltaic deivices but use solar thermic generation which allows for energy to be stored (IIRC in the form of molten salt, but I forgot the details), so that you can generate electricity even at night. This was considered already several years ago but the project was dropped due to political risk (think e.g. of the turmoil in Libya etc.).

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

They won't use photovoltaic deivices but use solar thermic generation which allows for energy to be stored (IIRC in the form of molten salt, but I forgot the details), so that you can generate electricity even at night. This was considered already several years ago but the project was dropped due to political risk (think e.g. of the turmoil in Libya etc.).

 

Source?

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5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Why sahara? Solar panels lose efficiency when too hot. There are much more suitable places in europe.

Correct, but not using solar panels

 

There is another, where u use steerable mirrors to point reflected light on to big water tanks, that's boils the water, makes steam and that turns a turbine that makes electricity. 

 

Morocco has at least one plant doing this already. 

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Our 2 solar panels on our boat get full charge when it is cloudy. Not black skies but no "sun" either. They are more sensitive than we thought. They really don't need full sun. Of course I'm talking about a tiny installation.

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5 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Then dependent on the Sahara.

 

Europe has to be a little bit dependant on several sources, unless there is another way found. But better be dependant on several sources than just one or two

 

Ie better to depend on 

 

Europe produced energy

Sahara electricity

LPG  several different sources

Nuclear 

 

Than

Russian GAS

Europe produced energy

 

Because if any one side switches  of,  you can more easily swap and should have less negative cinseqence

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, yesterday said:

Correct, but not using solar panels

 

There is another, where u use steerable mirrors to point reflected light on to big water tanks, that's boils the water, makes steam and that turns a turbine that makes electricity. 

 

Morocco has at least one plant doing this already. 

They have the same in US. AFAIK, it's not cost competitive with solar panels. Solar panels just got dirty cheap. And they don't need mega investment, they work in small scale.

 

Future is PV solar and batteries.

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18 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Future is PV solar and batteries.

 

Hm, China dominates solar panel manufacturing and battery manufacture is dived up between Japan, Korea and China!

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

 

Hm, China dominates solar panel manufacturing and battery manufacture is dived up between Japan, Korea and China!

Better that than oil and gas from Saudi Arabia, Russia, venezuela and others!

 

Battery manufacture will come to Europe. And there are some interesting non-lithium batteries, like gravity batteries, although cost competitiveness is not proven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_battery

 

 

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