The War in Ukraine

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On 6/9/2022, 4:51:11, mtbiking said:

I prepared a graph for you: Greece had a sharp growth bubble in part by playing with the numbers, and when the big crisis hit they couldn't swim. Their economy is not destroyed, it just popped to a lower level. Their GDP ist still 13x bigger than in 1970. Germany or no Germany the bubble would have popped, as the world doesn't owe Greece the kind of growth they had between 2000 and 2008.

Exactly what happened in 2012: the economy was fine but Greece still had the debt crisis. A pretty unique situation. Of course, there was corruption on the Greek gov side, this is how colonialist powers work: they bribe the corrupt government. Accepting bribes is a crime, but so it the giving bribes.

 

United States put to jail American citizens giving bribes abroad. Germany doesn't, this is "doing business as usual".

 

Remember VW diesel scandal? The Germans did not have a problem with their CEOs cheating. They had a problem with getting caught. This "damaged the reputation of the country", the same country which got bribes from VW for decades.

 

 

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The hunger has started:

 

The worst drought in four decades, and a sharp rise in food prices caused by the war in Ukraine, have left almost half of Somalia’s people facing acute food shortages.

...

 

When her crops failed and her parched goats died, Hirsiyo Mohamed left her home in southwestern Somalia, carrying and coaxing three of her eight children on the long walk across a bare and dusty landscape in temperatures as high as 100 degrees.

 

Along the way, her 3-and-a-half-year-old son, Adan, tugged at her robe, begging for food and water. But there was none to give, she said. “We buried him, and kept walking.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/11/world/africa/somalia-drought-hunger.html

 

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11 hours ago, Namu said:

The hunger has started:

 

The worst drought in four decades, and a sharp rise in food prices caused by the war in Ukraine, have left almost half of Somalia’s people facing acute food shortages.

...

 

When her crops failed and her parched goats died, Hirsiyo Mohamed left her home in southwestern Somalia, carrying and coaxing three of her eight children on the long walk across a bare and dusty landscape in temperatures as high as 100 degrees.

 

Along the way, her 3-and-a-half-year-old son, Adan, tugged at her robe, begging for food and water. But there was none to give, she said. “We buried him, and kept walking.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/11/world/africa/somalia-drought-hunger.html

 

Is this the kind of solidarity the warmongers have in mind when they insist on showing solidarity with Ukraine?

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You seem to forget (or want us to forget) that the warmongers are in Moscow - or wherever Pooty Poot is hiding right now. 
 

The chief warmonger compared himself to Peter the Great last week, implying that it was his destiny to further grow the Russian empire. A Duma member suggested that Russia no longer need acknowledge Lithuania's independence. 
 

If you think giving Putin the Sudetenland, er, the Donbass will satisfy his territorial ambitions, you're delusional. Peace in our time, my ass, Mr. Chamberlain. 

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26 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

You seem to forget (or want us to forget) that the warmongers are in Moscow - or wherever Pooty Poot is hiding right now.  

I assumed at first Jeba was a pacifist but it does look like he is strongly in favour of the Russians.They seem according to him to not be doing anything wrong and merely want "lebensraum" and it is the West that is doing the warmongering and committing the atrocities.

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37 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

 Peace in our time, my ass, Mr. Chamberlain. 

A much maligned figure.If it wasn´t for the "peace in our time" Britain would have been nowhere near ready to go to war but the delay it caused allowed Britain to rearm especially it´s Air Force which was to prove crucial.

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On 6/9/2022, 11:46:33, scook17 said:

 

I wonder, looking back on the outcome, how Greek people feel about it today and if it might have been a much better choice to have defaulted.

An explanation from the finance minster of the time:

 

I had zero sympathy for Greece back then. I've visited Greece a few times and I was always astonished how a country with supposedly 30% more GDP per capita than Portugal looked like Portugal in the 1980's! And their economy is based on tourism, while making about the same money in tourism as Portugal. Something was clearly wrong!

 

They faked the numbers for decades, they gave huge benefits to state workers to win elections and in the end they got themselves trapped in a no-win situation. And then cried they were being abused by lenders!

 

Defaulting would not have helped at all. Resetting the debt to zero works for a few hours... the very next day you need to pay for things, and there is no money, and nobody else will lend it to you! Sure, you stop paying interests, but if your balance is still negative (which was), then you're going down even faster!

 

The (technical) solution would be to kick them out of the Euro and out of the EU. Problem is, geopolitics is also important and Greece's geographic position and relation with neighbors means it should remain attached to the west.

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57 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

They faked the numbers for decades,

Not only that, but when the head of the statistical office admitted the numbers their application for joining the Euro was based on were faked, they had the gall to sue him for treason.

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3 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I had zero sympathy for Greece back then. I've visited Greece a few times and I was always astonished how a country with supposedly 30% more GDP per capita than Portugal looked like Portugal in the 1980's! And their economy is based on tourism, while making about the same money in tourism as Portugal.

Don’t forget the size of Greece’s black economy.

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Tell me more...

 

Portugal in the 80s like some sort of time warp... i was there :unsure:

 

Europe was the best thing to happen to them. Raised the country to Western standards.

 

Now Greece... ?

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20 hours ago, optimista said:

Portugal in the 80s like some sort of time warp... i was there :unsure:

Europe was the best thing to happen to them. Raised the country to Western standards.

Yeah, I think joining EU was right on time. It squashed any far left attempt to run the country, and caught the country in a phase where it was becoming an open market. Basically all my friend's parents who owned a company became rich. Anybody who took a chance back then became well off, by the mixture between EU funds, opening up the market and realestate investment.

 

Sure there was wasted money on crooks, but I clearly remember many companies taking the opportunity to introduce computers. The phone network is a prime example. It was the first fully digital phone network in the world by 1990! ISDN had widespread adoption, which meant that before ADSL internet was a thing, companies were already having "fast" internet by bundling multiple ISDN lines together. This EU money gave a lot of technological development, which unfortunately faded away in the 2000s.

The road network had huge developments, as well as other public projects.

 

Then I went to Greece in 2003, 2007 and 2011 and it reminded me of Portugal before EU!

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Trouble is the west in not helping Ukraine enough!

 

Unless the west supports the Ukraine more, it will slowly lose. 

 

As each week passes the Russians control more tertiary, I support helping the Ukraine, but if we do not give them the right weapons, then more and more Ukrainian town and cites will be destroyed for nothing.

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

Trouble is the west in not helping Ukraine enough!

 

Unless the west supports the Ukraine more, it will slowly lose. 

 

As each week passes the Russians control more tertiary, I support helping the Ukraine, but if we do not give them the right weapons, then more and more Ukrainian town and cites will be destroyed for nothing.

Aid is reaching Ukraine on a daily basis, but it's not the easiest of places to reach with only a few access points

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https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61774950

 

Last month McDonald's announced the closure of all restaurants in Russia, citing the "humanitarian crisis"

and "unpredictable operating environment" caused by the war in Ukraine.

 

The fast food company sold more than 800 restaurants to Russian businessman Alexander Govor.

 

The branches will now reopen under the new name of "Vkusno i Tochka", which translates to"Tasty and that's it".

 

Ratburgers anyone?

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Quote

 

JERUSALEM, June 15 (Reuters) - Israel and the European Union will sign a natural gas export deal on Wednesday during a regional energy conference in Cairo, Israel's Energy Ministry said.

The EU has said Israel could be a new source of gas as it looks to reduce its reliance on Russian energy.

The deal will for the first time allow "significant" exports of Israeli gas to Europe, the ministry said.

Officials have said they expect the Israeli gas will be sent to liquefaction plants in Egypt and then shipped north to European market.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/israel-eu-sign-natural-gas-export-deal-israels-energy-ministry-2022-06-15/

Israel can't replace Russian gas for Germany but it can serve the Mediterranean EU countries.

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On 17.4.2022, 10:48:05, yesterday said:

can you not see nobody agrees with you on here, its pointless for you to repeat the stuff all the time, that nobody agrees with you.

 

Seems meanwhile a majority  is in agreement with my position and your side is part of a minority:

Quote

ECFR’s research shows that, while Europeans feel great solidarity with Ukraine and support sanctions against Russia, they are split about the long-term goals. They divide between a “Peace” camp (35 per cent of people) that wants the war to end as soon as possible, and a “Justice” camp that believes the more pressing goal is to punish Russia (25 per cent of people).

https://ecfr.eu/publication/peace-versus-justice-the-coming-european-split-over-the-war-in-ukraine/

Once people will sit in cold houses the support for continuation of the fight against Putin will be reduced much further.

 

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End the war in Ukraine NOW before the starving and riots begin!!!!!

 

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/jun/17/united-nations-wfp-hell-on-earth-ukraine-war-russia

 

 

Dozens of countries risk protests, riots and political violence this year as food prices surge around the world, the head of the food-aid branch of the United Nations has warned.

Speaking in Ethiopia’s capital, Addis Ababa, on Thursday, David Beasley, director of the UN World Food Programme (WFP), said the world faced “frightening” shortages that could destabilise countries that depend on wheat exports from Ukraine and Russia.

...

“It is a very, very frightening time,” said Beasley. “We are facing hell on earth if we do not respond immediately. The best thing we can do right now is end that damn war in Russia and Ukraine and get the port open.

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