The War in Ukraine

2,504 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, jeba said:

Before the current war started, i.e. 23 Feb.

 

Hardly seems likely with the Ukraine getting increasing support from NATO fuelling hope that they can inflict a serious defeat against Russia and claim back the land they lost in 2014 (if not the Crimea) and Russia having failed to achieve an attempted blitzkrieg victory now facing a slow costly stuttering advance into territory that they are having to devastate in order to take. Meanwhile the sanctions will continue to bite and Nato has got stronger with the applications to join from Sweden and Finland.

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2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Russia having failed to achieve an attempted blitzkrieg victory now facing a slow costly stuttering advance into territory that they are having to devastate in order to take.

I'm afraid Putin won't hesitate to do just that (and/or to use chemical weapons, cluster bombs etc). Sanctions won't stop him as long as there are so many countries not participating (China, India, Turkey, Israel...). Even Habeck conceded that Russia makes more money now than before the war due to elevated energy prices. We can shoot ourselves into the foot all we want - it will not stop the war. All it will achieve is more misery.

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3 minutes ago, jeba said:

Even Habeck conceded that Russia makes more money now than before the war due to elevated energy prices.

 

I call bullshit. Their economy is terrible.

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37 minutes ago, jeba said:

Even Habeck conceded that Russia makes more money now than before the war due to elevated energy prices. We can shoot ourselves into the foot all we want - it will not stop the war. All it will achieve is more misery.

 

 

The cost is not just monetary it is in men, materials, international reputation, none of which can be that quickly replaced regardless of how much money they are accumulating!

Better we metaphorically shoot ourselves in the foot and help the Ukrainians win this war rather than letting the Russians shoot us in the back of the head if the Ukraine looses.

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40 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Better we metaphorically shoot ourselves in the foot and help the Ukrainians win this war rather than letting the Russians shoot us in the back of the head if the Ukraine looses.

 

Reminds me of the joke the Berliners use to say as the city was being attacked by the Russians at the end of WW2. "Better a Rusky on your belly than an Ami on your head" The lesser of two evils.

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3 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

I call bullshit. Their economy is terrible.

That doesn´t change the fact that oil prices have tripled over the last 2 years. And they are selling other commodities which have risen in price as well.

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3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

The cost is not just monetary it is in men, materials, international reputation, none of which can be that quickly replaced regardless of how much money they are accumulating!

Better we metaphorically shoot ourselves in the foot and help the Ukrainians win this war rather than letting the Russians shoot us in the back of the head if the Ukraine looses.

You´re still implying Ukraine can win? That´s a pie in the sky. And even if they could, I´m afraid most of Ukraine would look like Mariupol and be scattered with dead bodies.

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1 minute ago, jeba said:

That doesn´t change the fact that oil prices have tripled over the last 2 years. And they are selling other commodities which have risen in price as well.

 

And that doesn't change the fact that their economy is in the shithole.  

 

Not dismissing that other countries are suffering because of fuel prices. Why, in the US, they are now paying the same we have been paying for the lase 30 yrs. - around $5 per gallon. I pull out my smallest violin for them.

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31 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

And that doesn't change the fact that their economy is in the shithole.  

I don't doubt that. But it just means that ordinary people will have to tighten their belts, not that Putin will end the war because of it.

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4 minutes ago, jeba said:

But it just means that ordinary people will have to tighten their belts

 

What does "tighten their belts" actually mean to you? How do you think most Russians lived before this?

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40 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

What does "tighten their belts" actually mean to you? How do you think most Russians lived before this?

Better than they are living now. And now they are living better than they will in half a year.

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4 hours ago, jeba said:

You´re still implying Ukraine can win? That´s a pie in the sky. And even if they could, I´m afraid most of Ukraine would look like Mariupol and be scattered with dead bodies.

 

Russia can only win if the Ukraine totally capitulates as you have suggested, anything else and ultimately Russia will loose!

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6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

Russia can only win if the Ukraine totally capitulates as you have suggested, anything else and ultimately Russia will loose!

Dream on, they already are occupying 95% of Luhansk and large parts of Donbasz. Don´t you watch news or do you think Ukraine will be able to push them back? I don´t, and and even if I was wrong, they would reconquer scorched earth.

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

Dream on, they already are occupying 95% of Luhansk and large parts of Donbasz. Don´t you watch news or do you think Ukraine will be able to push them back? I don´t, and and even if I was wrong, they would reconquer scorched earth.

Latest estimates put it at about 80-90% but to do it they have had to commit all their forces.

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3 hours ago, jeba said:

Dream on, they already are occupying 95% of Luhansk and large parts of Donbasz. Don´t you watch news or do you think Ukraine will be able to push them back? I don´t, and and even if I was wrong, they would reconquer scorched earth.

Your missing the big picture. Russia is bogged down in a WW 1 type attritional war in which it is unlikely there will be any decisive outcome at present and with their losses mounting with every meter of devastated land they take. It has already gone horribly wrong for them and getting worse by the day regardless of any minor advances on the ground.

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2 hours ago, Wulfrun said:

Poland under threat from Putin's ally in Chechen Republic. Poland is a member of NATO and shares a border with Germany...

 

I have little doubt that Poland is shaking in their boots at this threat...NOT!

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20 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Your missing the big picture. Russia is bogged down in a WW 1 type attritional war in which it is unlikely there will be any decisive outcome at present and with their losses mounting with every meter of devastated land they take. It has already gone horribly wrong for them and getting worse by the day regardless of any minor advances on the ground.

 

Are you saying they will retract from Ukrainian territory? If yes, you need to polish your glass bowel, if not, you have to explain what delaying the inevitable while lives are being lost and more territories being scorched every day is good for.

 

Quote

 The available news about the fighting in the Donbass suggests that the Russian troops are relying on the psychological effect of the "fire roll": a brutal but proven Red Army procedure: "It is a continuous curtain of fire that is successively shifted from one phase line to another in front of the attacking troops", is how a US Army manual on Soviet warfare describes the tactics of the fire roll. ...

...The pincer around the eastern Ukrainian town of Severodonetsk is gradually beginning to close. At least three Ukrainian brigades could be trapped. At the same time, the Russian army is shelling the defenders' supply lines in the depths of the area, such as the Bachmut junction...

...While the Russian army started its offensive with a far too weak force, it now wants to make up for the impending embarrassment with ruthlessness. For Kiev, it remains a race against time to regain control with sufficient offensive weapons. The wait-and-see attitude of the Western European governments, however, does not bode well - and could ultimately help the tactics of the firestorm to succeed.

deepl-translation from: https://view.email.nzz.ch/?qs=47541d59164142ba053c474d2cd4cceab853984cd2fe7c303b31d6418f7e6df1b868466bddcc5354a3305188876fd5f29863e5a8746eb8ac2176ae1a93c71a0bfcc0595ca8efec9bfb8b589f8ce7f9a3a9e774ed2128bd75

 

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

 

Are you saying they will retract from Ukrainian territory? If yes, you need to polish your glass bowel, if not, you have to explain what delaying the inevitable while lives are being lost and more territories being scorched every day is good for.

 

 

Quote

glass bowel

I presume you mean crystal ball?

Whatever, perhaps you can let us know what your vision of the future for the Ukraine and other eastern European nations looks like under the current Russian dictatorship which does not even any longer  claim the political concept to be for the people? A vision I suspect that should be delayed for as long as possible!

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