Posted 5 March 1 minute ago, MikeMelga said: I don't, hence shopping parking. We take the car for shopping once a week. Of course, no problem for us because we have garage charging. For people who don't, can be a problem. Especially if you want to take a little outing once or twice a week to another town. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March If you take your car for shopping once a week in >2030, then you can charge for the week there. I have a friend who doesn't have a plug on the garage, but he shops at Pasing Arkaden, which has a supercharger on the parking lot. That's where he charges his car, once a week. During work drives, he charges on autobahn superchargers. These excuses against EVs just die out every year that passes. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 8 hours ago, keith2011 said: Sorry my post was a response to Keleth's I had not even realised that out of context and partial quote was from you I had taken as being part of his post. I was using it to highlight his negative critical responses to individual effort and support for a greener future. My critical response to you was because of your attitude that EVs are "squeaky clean" in cities. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 8 hours ago, keith2011 said: That's typical, nothing we can do someone else must fix the problems, governments, the oil industry, god, just don't ask me to stop using plastic straws in my afternoon cocktail, because it won't help! Does anyone actually think this? We do it but we know it doesn´t make a difference, you seem to do it and drive an EV and then think "that´s it world is saved". It´s like they say, EV drivers are the new vegans. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 2 hours ago, MikeMelga said: Disagree, just made a >1000km trip this weekend with the Tesla. Zero problems. 1 hour ago, MikeMelga said: I am opposed to banning ICE cars in 2035 because I think it's a worthless waste of time. Nobody will be buying ICE cars in 2035. Why would people, in 2035, buy a more expensive car, with zero resale value, when gas stations and traditional repair shops start closing in big numbers? Look at Norway, this is already happening there! Give it 3 more years and you will start noticing the same happening in Germany. This will of course lead to an environmental disaster. People will not keep their ICE cars for 20 years. They will sell it to 3rd world or just decommission them, as running them past 2030 will become very hard. I suspect the government will hand over some help to ICE owners, to keep them from transitioning too fast to electrics, while their ICE cars are still very road worthy. 1 hour ago, MikeMelga said: Again, forget street charging, this will be done at work or at shopping parking areas. A 50kWh charger can give some juice back in 20-30min, and a 150kWh charger can do wonders in 15-20min. 27 minutes ago, MikeMelga said: I don't, hence shopping parking. 18 minutes ago, MikeMelga said: If you take your car for shopping once a week in >2030, then you can charge for the week there. I have a friend who doesn't have a plug on the garage, but he shops at Pasing Arkaden, which has a supercharger on the parking lot. That's where he charges his car, once a week. During work drives, he charges on autobahn superchargers. These excuses against EVs just die out every year that passes. MM once again looking down on us from his ivory tower. Someone ask him why he still drives his diesel Mercedes 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 4 hours ago, Keleth said: Does anyone actually think this? We do it but we know it doesn´t make a difference, you seem to do it and drive an EV and then think "that´s it world is saved". It´s like they say, EV drivers are the new vegans. That is typical of your bloody negative approach to this. You constantly belittle any changes as being useless or not enough when you could be welcoming them and encouraging and supporting further changes. Maybe you should consider changing you handle to Marvin! BTW I do not own (and suspect I never will) or drive an EV and have not owned a car of any kind for years but I'm happy that as more people do use them the air I breathe becomes less polluted. I don't think that alone will save the world but it will improve mine, so bring it on! 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 17 hours ago, Rushrush said: Definitely not opposed to EVs especially for the poor souls that live in the city centre mostly just it's not practical to ban ICEs. I just don't see how they can replace cars, at least in Europe - main issue being personal charging stations. Moving to a new area and each and every house has a parking spot - so no issue on wall chargers but almost every family has a second one and parking is always a nightmare - so you'd need not only the home wall chargers but dozens more on the street. And as an aside I found out that batteries can be recycled which means over time we'll need less new mining It's true, the battery is probably the easiest part of an EV to recycle and battery recycling yields a very high percentage of the original materials used. On the "need more on street chargers" thing...well that is true to an extent but urban on street charging in future will (IMVHO) be conducted using unobtrusive induction loops. Most kerbside parking spots will have a charging loop eventually. Large rapid DC chargers are not generally needed in urban areas. They are really useful on intercity routes at motorway service areas rather than in the city, where it will be possible to build (over time) more and more inductive charging so cars that stay inside a city, rarely if ever actually need to be plugged in. But this is decades away for sure. But it is the future I reckon. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 14 hours ago, MikeMelga said: I have a friend who doesn't have a plug on the garage, but he shops at Pasing Arkaden, which has a supercharger on the parking lot. That's great. We usually do our big weekly shopping at VMarkt. They only have a few slow chargers like what we have in the garage so far. As I've said, we only need fast chargers when we are on a trip somewhere. I'm a poor soul anyway. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March Curious but can you plug an e-car into an socket? Say you're visiting a friend and they don't have a wall box can you simply run an extension cord out? As an aside the real issue is the Decarbonation or to quote Adam Tooze. Quote As far as we are currently able to judge, our best chance to halt the further escalation of the climate crisis through decarbonization of the economy depends on electricity and electrification. Given the current horizon of technological expectations, electric power and electric technology offer us the best chance of reconciling the insatiable desire for energy with the stretched and frayed environmental envelope. He goes on to say Quote Electricity today is still a major driver of environmental disaster. This is because it is overwhelmingly generated by burning fossil fuels and coal in particular. It is in fact, the largest single source of pollution, more than fossil-fueled powered transport or agriculture. He makes one fascinating and possibly terrifying comment – Given the need to electrify huge areas of economic and social life and given unmet development needs around the world, it is reasonable to assume that electricity production worldwide must at least double in the next 25 to 30 years. Long article but worth the time to read. Carbon Notes #1: Repowering the world - the challenge of electrification 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 15 minutes ago, Rushrush said: Curious but can you plug an e-car into an socket? Say you're visiting a friend and they don't have a wall box can you simply run an extension cord out? yes, you can plug your car in to any standard socket and charge. But it will be a slower charge. I think you can buy a box thats like a faster charger box thats in your garage, which fits between standard wall socket and your car, this will charge faster.. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March I've read some in-depth studies that if California were to magically switch to EVs only overnight, it may only require 30% more power generation. That's still a lot but it's not this b.s. "we need double the power" argument. As mentioned in the video posted in this thread, it's easy to miss just how much power and resources are needed to process and deliver fuel for vehicles. For example, in the US petroleum refineries are responsible for 15% of all industrial energy consumption - so add in power for pumpjacks, pipelines, transportation and gas stations (which alone use 2%!) and it's clear that downsizing the petroleum industry will make much power available for EVs. Also, CO2 emissions may be starting to plateau: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/02/co2-emissions-may-be-starting-to-plateau-global-energy-watchdog-iea It's always important to remember that we're in the middle of a public relations war fuelled by auto manufacturers and the oil industry. *Sources: https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-electricity-would-it-take-to-power-all-cars-if-they-were-electric/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-electric-vehicles-wont-break-the-grid/ https://calmatters.org/environment/2023/01/california-electric-cars-grid/ https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/transportation/2022/09/01/electric-vehicles-increase-demand-on-the-electrical-grid-only-slightly https://www.virta.global/blog/myth-buster-electric-vehicles-will-overload-the-power-grid 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March I think you need to be careful when plugging your car into a random socket at a friend's house. The sockets (and more importantly the wiring) in your house are normally peak rated. They are not expecting a 16A socket to pull the "full" 16A continuously for hours on end. This can lead to a fire if the wiring has not been installed to deliver this current continuously. Especially in older properties you would want to be very careful here. It's not just about the cable itself, it's also about where the cable runs (through insulation, bundled together with other cables? Beside a warm water pipe etc??). When installing heavier loads especially the electrician will (or should) use the VDE tables to work out what the actual load carrying capacity of a cable is or needs to be. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 12 minutes ago, murphaph said: I think you need to be careful when plugging your car into a random socket at a friend's house. The sockets (and more importantly the wiring) in your house are normally peak rated. They are not expecting a 16A socket to pull the "full" 16A continuously for hours on end. This can lead to a fire if the wiring has not been installed to deliver this current continuously. Especially in older properties you would want to be very careful here. It's not just about the cable itself, it's also about where the cable runs (through insulation, bundled together with other cables? Beside a warm water pipe etc??). When installing heavier loads especially the electrician will (or should) use the VDE tables to work out what the actual load carrying capacity of a cable is or needs to be. This is all true - but only when the EV draws 16A! To avoid such issues you can usually set a maximum of 10A/2.3kW or even less in the EV menu - or with a button on charging cables that are capable of 16A or more. Furthermore the chargers that VW group (among other EV manufacturers) sell are limited to 10A / 2.3kW which should be easier for most outlets and wiring to handle. Tesla's mobile charger can go up to 32A but it's easy to limit in the in-car menu. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March Yep, so "be careful" holds true in case your EV can pull 16A (or even less than that). I'm not saying "don't ever do it" but "don't assume it's foolproof". There have been fires caused by EV charging from Schuko sockets. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 4 hours ago, yesterday said: yes, you can plug your car in to any standard socket and charge. But it will be a slower charge. I think you can buy a box thats like a faster charger box thats in your garage, which fits between standard wall socket and your car, this will charge faster.. Was curious as occasionally their is a car parked at the end of the street on the curve with an extension cord out to the car - must be just a visitor as I only very occasionally see it parked there 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March Yes it is possible. However you need to use an extension with a thick cable. The longer the cable the thicker it should be. Some chargers will detect if you are using a lousy cable and stop working. The user manual of your car might say not to use an extension cord though. P.S., And a cheap multi-socket extension should never be used for plugging high wattage devices. If you have to use one you should choose a good quality one and if possible with surge protection. Connecting two extensions in series might be a bad idea in some/most cases because the thickness of the cable was calculated for its distance and wattage, if you put two together you increase the distance with the same thickness. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 6 hours ago, murphaph said: I think you need to be careful when plugging your car into a random socket at a friend's house. The sockets (and more importantly the wiring) in your house are normally peak rated. They are not expecting a 16A socket to pull the "full" 16A continuously for hours on end. This can lead to a fire if the wiring has not been installed to deliver this current continuously. Especially in older properties you would want to be very careful here. It's not just about the cable itself, it's also about where the cable runs (through insulation, bundled together with other cables? Beside a warm water pipe etc??). When installing heavier loads especially the electrician will (or should) use the VDE tables to work out what the actual load carrying capacity of a cable is or needs to be. The Tesla shows voltage vs current, so you can safely adjust the maximum current. It will also limit maximum current vs voltage drop. E.g. my garage has a 16A plug, but line losses make the voltage drop from 228-ish to 222V @13A (automatically limited). Then I reduce to 11A, raising voltage to around 225V, meaning I have less line losses. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 7 hours ago, circuits said: I've read some in-depth studies that if California were to magically switch to EVs only overnight, it may only require 30% more power generation. That's still a lot but it's not this b.s. "we need double the power" argument. I even doubt they need more power generation. They probably just need battery parks to level out consumption. As an example, Portugal produces 3x more electricity than it consumes. The remaining is wasted, as the target is peak consumption! Quote As mentioned in the video posted in this thread, it's easy to miss just how much power and resources are needed to process and deliver fuel for vehicles. For example, in the US petroleum refineries are responsible for 15% of all industrial energy consumption - so add in power for pumpjacks, pipelines, transportation and gas stations (which alone use 2%!) and it's clear that downsizing the petroleum industry will make much power available for EVs. Great info! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March 1 hour ago, MikeMelga said: The Tesla shows voltage vs current, so you can safely adjust the maximum current. It will also limit maximum current vs voltage drop. E.g. my garage has a 16A plug, but line losses make the voltage drop from 228-ish to 222V @13A (automatically limited). Then I reduce to 11A, raising voltage to around 225V, meaning I have less line losses. But your car knows nothing of the state of the wiring behind that Schuko and most home owners don't either. Many people wouldn't even know what other loads are already on that given circuit. It seems even 11A is too much for a 16A Schuko socket according to the linked article and if you visit a friend in CH then you should not even exceed 8A! The wallbox, fitted by a competent electrician on the other hand, is his or her guarantee that the wiring behind that wallbox is up to carrying the the maximum current the wallbox is rated for and this over a prolonged period of time without causing that wiring to overheat. Your standard Schuko socket basically has no such implicit guarantee, especially in an older property. That's the only real, but very significant difference of a wallbox and a Schuko socket. It's one thing to use your own Schuko socket at home where you may know what it's wiring is really capable of without risking a fire but plugging into a friend's Schuko socket is considerably more risky. I would know fairly accurately what my Schuko sockets are capable of because I was deeply involved in the wiring of this house. I know where the cable runs are and what the cross section of each cable is. This is the first house I have lived in where I would be confident of knowing all that though. https://teslawissen.ch/tesla-tipps-laden-steckdose/ I would reiterate that it is considered bad practice to use a Schuko socket for your long term charging needs, especially in an older property. Personally I would not plug my car into a friend's house unless they had a wallbox. I would not like to be responsible for an electrical fire in their house. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 6 March Right, forgot that electrical installations in germany over 15-20 years are crap. Still remember my 1991 apartment in Munich, that electric installation would not have been allowed in Portugal in the 70's! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
