Posted 5 March 11 hours ago, keith2011 said: For the end user and the location/environment where an EV will be used it is squeaky clean and that is what is important for me Really? Just because you can´t smell it doesn´t mean it´s not fucking your lungs up. The wife and I have more reasons than a lot of people for wanting rid of ICE in towns and cities but you are a perfect example of what I was saying in that you seem to think EVs are clean rather than just cleaner. Also is moving the problem from our doorstep really the best solution? A very nimby outlook. Also, you see it here on this board and everywhere EVs are talked about that EVs are the solution whereas it should be they are the solution for now not forever. We all know what's going to happen, the manufacturers are going to keep improving battery usage, Ausstattung, and price and people will settle for that no matter the pollution it is causing elsewhere. Let´s face it if it wasn´t for Tesla then I doubt very much if anyone would be thinking about EVs, we´d still be happy with ICEs driving around and just kicking the can down the road. Once EVs are the only cars on the road I can´t see many businesses and govt pouring millions into research to find a cleaner vehicle. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 10 hours ago, Krieg said: The solution to the climate problems is not in the hands of the individuals, it can only be fixed by governments. The concept of "carbon footprint" is very new, less than 20 years, and it was created by BP (British Petroleum) as a way to transfer guilt from corporations to individuals. Whatever decision you take will cost in "carbon footprint", but the individual will be always guilty because you had the choice not to do it. Yes, we can use less plastic, ride bicycles, etc, and that will help, but it is still pretty little to fix the problem. In the meantime corporations washed their hands because we are the ones "deciding" to do the bad things. I said this a while back in this thread but people still don´t seem to realise how much of a problem industry is. As a matter of interest does anyone know how much difference the banning of plastic straws and the plastic bag initiative have made? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 11 hours ago, Astridx said: Sounds like cars aren't the solution. It´s convenience that is more important to people than anything else. We could have perfect public transport and people would be complaining that they have to walk 100m to the transport stop or whatever. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 2 hours ago, Keleth said: people would be complaining that they have to walk 100m to the transport stop or whatever. Especially after the big weekly shopping. That is mostly what we use our car for. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 7 minutes ago, fraufruit said: Especially after the big weekly shopping. That is mostly what we use our car for. I suspect this is how it will mostly work out, an EV for local trips and the regular car for longer trips. Most families are 2-3 cars now so one electric and one gas. The reason for the ICE is long trips - at this point long trips are a logistical nightmare (especially in the UK/US) 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 4 hours ago, Keleth said: Really? Just because you can´t smell it doesn´t mean it´s not fucking your lungs up. The wife and I have more reasons than a lot of people for wanting rid of ICE in towns and cities but you are a perfect example of what I was saying in that you seem to think EVs are clean rather than just cleaner. Also is moving the problem from our doorstep really the best solution? A very nimby outlook. Yes really, I know it is not the final solution but it can be a very big start as shown in that video. The change to EVs in the western world will massively reduce the demand for oil and the very polluting oil industry will contract, Your arguments that EVs are not enough and that the whole industrial world need to make massive changes to combat environmental change may be correct but is the very same one that the deniers use to argue against even making the smallest of improvements. Quote The solution to the climate problems is not in the hands of the individuals, it can only be fixed by governments. That's typical, nothing we can do someone else must fix the problems, governments, the oil industry, god, just don't ask me to stop using plastic straws in my afternoon cocktail, because it won't help! 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 5 minutes ago, keith2011 said: That's typical, nothing we can do someone else must fix the problems, governments, the oil industry, god, just don't ask me to stop using plastic straws in my afternoon cocktail, because it won't help! FFS that's not what I said. I am doing my part, sold one of our cars and now we have only one we barely use, cycle when I can, avoid plastics when possible, haven't taken a plane since 2018, and so on. But I know what I do is just a bandaid. I even play religiously the recycling game, even after knowing it is mostly a waste of time and a smokescreen. Feel free to believe you are saving the world. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 1 hour ago, Rushrush said: I suspect this is how it will mostly work out, an EV for local trips and the regular car for longer trips. Most families are 2-3 cars now so one electric and one gas. The reason for the ICE is long trips - at this point long trips are a logistical nightmare (especially in the UK/US) New ICE cars will be legally unavailable from 2035 in the EU and practically unavailable long before that as manufacturers are already seeing massive swings towards EVs. By 2035 the range of EVs is likely to rival the ICE vehicles of today. Then you will have faster and faster DC charging stations to rival the speed of going to a petrol station (plus all the advantages of passive charging that we have not even seen a glimpse of in Europe yet). Aside: EVs don't just shift the pollution elsewhere. They dramatically reduce the overall pollution compared to ICEs and with every new source of renewable energy that comes on stream further reduce it. They actually further enable the rollout of renewables because they contain the storage required to make renewables reliable enough to switch to completely. Cars can already discharge and power mains appliances. In future a wallbox will not just be designed to allow charging the vehicle but powering the building it is attached to if there is no immediate need to use. EVs are part of a holistic approach to energy and that is an all electric future. Be it battery powered vehicles, heat pumps in homes, green hydrogen in vehicles or industries that cannot easily be battery/electrically powered etc. etc. The days of fossil fuels are numbered. In 100 years the ICE will be distant memory, like steam powered road vehicles. This "brief" century and a half of ICE vehicles will be a blip in human history (an unfortunate blip that would never have happened had we not found cheap oil) where we did our level best to destroy the planet (unknowingly at the beginning of course) but a blip we will leave behind and move on from. The very notion of extracting dead animal remains from deep in the earth's crust to move from A to B will seem bizarre to future generations. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 17 minutes ago, Krieg said: FFS that's not what I said. Sorry my post was a response to Keleth's I had not even realised that out of context and partial quote was from you I had taken as being part of his post. I was using it to highlight his negative critical responses to individual effort and support for a greener future. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March Keleth's post was just being realistic, of course the banning of plastic bags and straws, is a good move but they are not going to make much change to the damage that we are doing to the planet, although I still mostly support it. The Change to EV's will make a real difference, but I still think EV have a lot of negatives, and I am not sure we will get a ban on ICE cars by 2035. remember FF post from 2 days a go, saying Germany is currently against it, I guess due to its industry being dependent on ICE cars. Lets face it all the COP measures in the past 27 years have not really done very much, to stop or turn around climate change. The only time when climate emissions went down was during the pandemic, every other year we have damaged the planet more and more each year. The big difference that has come is the Ukraine war, and the Wests, desire to become less dependent on Oil and the places that produce it. Currently we are making massive investments in Green hydrogen, in places around the world, if this can be done cheap enough, we can get away from some parts of the oil industry. Things like shipping making steel and commercial transportation which make a big difference. Of course I try to do my bit to save the planet, but know its not making any difference in the big picture. This video shows what Germany is doing to transition to green energy. Green hydrogen: Is the Global South paying for Germany's energy transition? | DW News - YouTube The basic problem we have is that we cannot make enough green energy ( currently ) for Europe in Europe, and no not making plastic straws will not change that, but I still support it. We should also think that all of of the rest of the world is un green, as an example I did a tour in Cambodia, while waiting to get on a boat, I finished my can drink and asked one of the boat operators how I should dispose of the can, he took it off me and dropped it in the sea. I have 2 questions about moving where we get our energy from outside of oil country's. 1) Will this just turn in to another imperial age, where we take what we want to provide enough green energy for us and do very little to help the people in Africa ? 2) Are we not just swapping one unstable area of the world for another one to provide us with our green energy needs ? 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 5 hours ago, fraufruit said: 3 hours ago, murphaph said: New ICE cars will be legally unavailable from 2035 in the EU and practically unavailable long before that as manufacturers are already seeing massive swings towards EVs. By 2035 the range of EVs is likely to rival the ICE vehicles of today. Then you will have faster and faster DC charging stations to rival the speed of going to a petrol station (plus all the advantages of passive charging that we have not even seen a glimpse of in Europe yet). Definitely not opposed to EVs especially for the poor souls that live in the city centre mostly just it's not practical to ban ICEs. I just don't see how they can replace cars, at least in Europe - main issue being personal charging stations. Moving to a new area and each and every house has a parking spot - so no issue on wall chargers but almost every family has a second one and parking is always a nightmare - so you'd need not only the home wall chargers but dozens more on the street. And as an aside I found out that batteries can be recycled which means over time we'll need less new mining 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March On 3/3/2023, 1:32:33, Krieg said: Battery development jumped a massive leap but it has been kind of stagnated for a few years, there are advances but not anymore like before. The 4860 battery from Tesla was pumped as the best upcoming thing, but now that it is out it has been kind of disappointment for the user, the battery itself is cheaper but the range of the Tesla Y with 4860 is actually lower than the Tesla Y with the old 2170 battery. The main goal of the 4680 was cheaper price and smaller factory footprint, not performance. The range of the Tesla Y with 4860 has nothing to do with battery being bad. They simply don't have enough 4860 production, so they made a mid-range Model Y with a small battery. On 3/3/2023, 1:32:33, Krieg said: In the USA which AFAIK is the only place you can/could choose which battery you get, the Tesla Y with 4860 costs $2000 or $3000 less, but you lose around 80 kilometers or range. I think at the moment Tesla has suspended the sales of the Tesla Y with 4860. If all these is true, it confirms that Tesla has been mostly concentrated in manufacturing instead of pure R&D in the past years. It's not true. 4680 are still not mature, but they need to sell the ones they produce during the ramp up. The 4680 right now only exists in cars because they need to make money of the ongoing ramp-up/R&D effort. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 8 hours ago, Rushrush said: I suspect this is how it will mostly work out, an EV for local trips and the regular car for longer trips. Most families are 2-3 cars now so one electric and one gas. The reason for the ICE is long trips - at this point long trips are a logistical nightmare (especially in the UK/US) Disagree, just made a >1000km trip this weekend with the Tesla. Zero problems. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March I am opposed to banning ICE cars in 2035 because I think it's a worthless waste of time. Nobody will be buying ICE cars in 2035. Why would people, in 2035, buy a more expensive car, with zero resale value, when gas stations and traditional repair shops start closing in big numbers? Look at Norway, this is already happening there! Give it 3 more years and you will start noticing the same happening in Germany. This will of course lead to an environmental disaster. People will not keep their ICE cars for 20 years. They will sell it to 3rd world or just decommission them, as running them past 2030 will become very hard. I suspect the government will hand over some help to ICE owners, to keep them from transitioning too fast to electrics, while their ICE cars are still very road worthy. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 2 hours ago, Rushrush said: I just don't see how they can replace cars, at least in Europe - main issue being personal charging stations. Moving to a new area and each and every house has a parking spot - so no issue on wall chargers but almost every family has a second one and parking is always a nightmare - so you'd need not only the home wall chargers but dozens more on the street. Again, forget street charging, this will be done at work or at shopping parking areas. A 50kWh charger can give some juice back in 20-30min, and a 150kWh charger can do wonders in 15-20min. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March On 3/3/2023, 2:50:13, Krieg said: In the mean time hydrogen airplanes are already flying. https://electrek.co/2023/03/02/universal-hydrogen-passenger-hydrogen-electric-plane-maiden-flight/ That's fuel cell, not directly hydrogen burning on the engine. Fuel cells are not competitive against batteries. On 3/3/2023, 2:50:13, Krieg said: The hydrogen revolution started already, I guess we will see its effects somewhere between 2030 and 2040. Edit: Hydrogen can be transported in several forms, gaseous, liquified, with ammonia, with liquid organic carriers. With ammonia is at the moment the best way to transported for very long distances. Hydrogen is a bad solution even for rockets. It's very hard to store it, to transport it, and boil-off is a huge problem. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 56 minutes ago, MikeMelga said: Again, forget street charging, this will be done at work or at shopping parking areas. Why do you keep assuming that everybody who works, drives to work? Not to mention those of us who don't work. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 1 hour ago, MikeMelga said: Disagree, just made a >1000km trip this weekend with the Tesla. Zero problems. Böh! How big was the drum for the extension cable? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 32 minutes ago, fraufruit said: Why do you keep assuming that everybody who works, drives to work? Not to mention those of us who don't work. I don't, hence shopping parking. 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted 5 March 24 minutes ago, slammer said: Böh! How big was the drum for the extension cable? Electrified Chicken wire on the Autobahn! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
