Electric vehicles in Germany - all the ins-and-outs!

[MikeMelga 7,345]

13 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I'm not going to bother my pretty little head with all of those numbers. It will cost what it costs.

Roughly 50-70% cheaper than Diesel if you charge at home.

Worst possible case, in a super expensive charger without a good charging plan, around the same price as Diesel.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

4 hours ago, yesterday said:

At some point, the cheap electricity will be phased out, the Governments will need to put a tax on it, to replace the TAX they are losing from Petrol/Diesel car as they become fewer and fewer.

 

Most of the price you pay for Petrol/diesel is tax, they just cannot afford to lose that, maybe we will move to a km charge of EVs.

I doubt it. I think it will go to road tax, but that doesn't cover it completely. Taxing electricity will be very complicated, as people can just put solar panels and tell them to fuck off.

Even if they find a mechanism to tax solar power at home, they will lose any single valid argument for that taxation. So I think they will just increase income tax.

 

[fraufruit 42,667]

Don't the vast majority of people in DE live in Wohnungen? 

[yesterday 2,039]

I not sure !! Like everybody 

 

I thought, they just read how many km's is on your car at the TUV, and you get charged so many Euro's  per 10,000 km you did between TUV's 

 

Because the other concern is we have is the roads are too crowded, if you just increase income tax a lot of will just carry on driving, you have to target the tax to using the road, if you have a km tax then the more you drive the more tax you pay, thus maybe reducing the number of km's people drive. This then means less congestion 

 

 

[MikeMelga 7,345]

Now you have Balkon PV Anlage! If you can share your Wohnung strom with the garage, that could save you money. Even a simple plug-in installation, limited to 600W peak, could probably provide 10-30km of range per day of charging, depending on weather and time of the year.

[Krieg 15,102]

8 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Don't the vast majority of people in DE live in Wohnungen? 

 

Majority yes, but surprisingly the difference is not that big as you might think, 56% in apartments vs 41% in detached and semidetached houses.

[yesterday 2,039]

2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Now you have Balkon PV Anlage! If you can share your Wohnung strom with the garage, that could save you money. Even a simple plug-in installation, limited to 600W peak, could probably provide 10-30km of range per day of charging, depending on weather and time of the year.

and on a day like this, you will get almost zero energy from the sun

[fraufruit 42,667]

4 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

If you can share your Wohnung strom with the garage,

 

Huh? Besides, we use every square centimeter of our tiny east and west balconies.

 

Thanks for that, Krieg.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

Just now, yesterday said:

and on a day like this, you will get almost zero energy from the sun

I was with my neighbor the other day with similar weather and it was definitely above zero, around 50-100W, for a 600W peak system. But if the price of electricity does increase substantially, it pays off to make something like a 1000-1500W peak system, even if limited for 600W to continue to be plug & play.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Huh? Besides, we use every square centimeter of our tiny east and west balconies.

 

Doesn't occupy any space.

https://www.lokalmatador.de/nachricht/homeoffice-mit-eigenem-strom-vom-balkon-1509/

 

More radical solution, no Balkon:

https://www.gartenhaus.at/magazin/balkon-solaranlage/

[fraufruit 42,667]

I'm 100% sure we would never get permission for such and installation and, even if we could, the cost would be prohibitive. We aren't here over 3 months in the summers. (Where we use solar power on our boat.)

 

 

[yesterday 2,039]

11 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

I was with my neighbor the other day with similar weather and it was definitely above zero, around 50-100W, for a 600W peak system. But if the price of electricity does increase substantially, it pays off to make something like a 1000-1500W peak system, even if limited for 600W to continue to be plug & play.

 

50- to 100 W

 

Is like the power of an electric light build, old style  - u are  not going to get very far on that

[mtbiking 1,914]

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

I doubt it. I think it will go to road tax, but that doesn't cover it completely. Taxing electricity will be very complicated, as people can just put solar panels and tell them to fuck off.

Even if they find a mechanism to tax solar power at home, they will lose any single valid argument for that taxation. So I think they will just increase income tax.

 

No, they’ll go the Austrian or Swiss route - or increase the KFZ Steuer by one order magnitude, maybe in proportion to km driven, long before they increase income tax, the outcry would otherwise be immense and IMO justified. It’s perfectly reasonable to charge private road users directly for the upkeep of those roads. Electrical car drivers are being tax favored right now as early adopters, but this will change rapidly with massification.

[fraufruit 42,667]

Or finally start charging to drive on our Autobahns like we pay to drive in other countries.

[Gambatte 980]

5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

as people can just put solar panels and tell them to fuck off.

Even if they find a mechanism to tax solar power at home, they will lose any single valid argument for that taxation. So I think they will just increase income tax.

 

If the cost of electricity from the grid goes up, vendors of solar panels will know that your financial incentive for  photovoltaic has also increased, so they will in tune increase the price of photovoltaic modules inverter etc.

[circuits 314]

Aren't there several other solar panels threads on TT?

 

 

 

 

[MikeMelga 7,345]

5 hours ago, fraufruit said:

I'm 100% sure we would never get permission for such and installation and, even if we could, the cost would be prohibitive. We aren't here over 3 months in the summers. (Where we use solar power on our boat.)

 

 

Actually, for these <600Wp installations, you don't need permission and for simple installations, you can do it yourself.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

1 hour ago, Gambatte said:

If the cost of electricity from the grid goes up, vendors of solar panels will know that your financial incentive for  photovoltaic has also increased, so they will in tune increase the price of photovoltaic modules inverter etc.

Contrary to energy supply, there is a very healthy competition on solar panels.

[scook17 292]

17 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Doesn't occupy any space.

https://www.lokalmatador.de/nachricht/homeoffice-mit-eigenem-strom-vom-balkon-1509/

 

Great idea, but that looks ugly as hell. Would love to find something set in glass, more like a traditional balcony glass panels. Sure it's not the right angle, and the other link shows some tilted ones which also look better. We have something which looks like this

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/outdoor-tinted-glass-balustrade-frosted-glass_1350297035.html

 

Would be happy to replace it with solar panels, but only if they looked nice. For example, this

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/40-Transparent-Frameless-Glass-Solar-Panel_60705819883.html?spm=a2700.details.0.0.2e9672780w9S4P

And we balcony panels, not just bits of glass.

[circuits 314]

RWD in snowy mountains? A comparison between the Ioniq 5 and the Cupra Born:

 

 

The Ioniq 5 has a Schneemodus which delivers less torque to prevent slipping. Both vehicles do considerably well except for the Born on a particularly steep and slippery incline where he had to backup a bit and start again.

 

I saw a recent comparison with a FWD E-Kona and it did terribly compared to a RWD ID.3. It seems FWD EVs don't perform on snow as well because of the weight distribution.