Electric vehicles in Germany - all the ins-and-outs!

667 posts in this topic

On 2/11/2022, 6:26:47, fraufruit said:

 

Do you own your row house?

 

 

No, but the owner is open to working with us on possible solutions. We haven't finalized a vehicle, just started looking at the options.

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On 2/11/2022, 6:26:47, fraufruit said:

We were talking today about planning nice dinners out close to charging stations. 4 hr. free parking. :lol:

 

Count me in!! :D

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On 11/02/2022, 18:06:56, RPC said:

 

What are the thoughts of the members here on plug-in hybrids? We are planning to change our car and are not sure of relying on an EV. The rowhouse we live in does not have an attached garage. The garages are a few doors away and there is no provision for a plug point there. I don't see any way to have one in front of the house as it would mean running the charging cable over the sidewalk.

Besides, we like long road trips and don't think we will enjoy with a 30 minute break every three hours or so. So, we are thinking that a PHEV would be a safer bet for the time being.

I thought of leasing one. But then remembered that I dont have much of city driving , so I don't have the electric drives s advantage. If you are leasing it and if you have city drives then I think it's good option. I fear that power demand for highway is too high and the machine will engage the dirty power source 

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On 11/02/2022, 18:06:56, RPC said:

What are the thoughts of the members here on plug-in hybrids? We are planning to change our car and are not sure of relying on an EV. The rowhouse we live in does not have an attached garage. The garages are a few doors away and there is no provision for a plug point there. I don't see any way to have one in front of the house as it would mean running the charging cable over the sidewalk.

Besides, we like long road trips and don't think we will enjoy with a 30 minute break every three hours or so. So, we are thinking that a PHEV would be a safer bet for the time being.

 

Visited my mums place in Plymouth, a typical UK housing estate, which for at least the older designs means lots of terrace (row) houses, a path to walk on and then parking on the street. Equally some taller apartment blocks like I see here in Munich. Unlike Germany, where a lucky few get an underground garage, everyone parks on the street.

 

Unless the council come through, digs up the road and installs charging points, it's makes it very hard to own a pure electric car with today's charging rates. Home charging will always be the domain of those who have a garage/driveway. The UK will insist all garage forecourts are fitted with high speed DC chargers, and eventually these will replace pumps and battery charging speeds increased. Until then, they might have to become more like cafes whilst people wait.

 

As with all car tech, the high-end tech of charging will eventually become just normal tech and 10 years+ from now every car will charge in minutes, but for at least a good period of time, there are just a few cars which do this (Telsa, Porsche, Kia EV6), and a just few chargers (Tesla, Porsche) which support it. Most do fast charging, but very few as fast as Tesla's supercharging.

https://insideevs.com/news/512344/porsche-taycan-fast-charging-analysis/

 

You can charge in car parks, at work, or in certain locations, but I think I'd still prefer the convenience of 5 minutes to put in gas if I did not have a driveway/garage where I could charge overnight. Depends on how much convenience vs price/environment impact matters to you, and how close are the charging points, so giving the option of a choice. I think there will be quite a big market for hybrids for a while yet.

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20 minutes ago, scook17 said:

there are just a few cars which do this (Telsa, Porsche, Kia EV6), and a just few chargers (Tesla, Porsche) which support it.

 

You left out one -

 

Hyundai is claiming a segment-best charging time of 10 to 80 percent in only 18 minutes with the 800-volt multi-charging setup using the 350-kW charger. 

In a rush but don’t have enough juice? In about 5 minutes, IONIQ 5 owners can use the 350-kW fast charger to gain around 68 extra miles when needed. Using the 10.9 kW on-board charger which comes standard will provide a full charge in 6 hours and 43 minutes using Level 2 charging.

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People overthink the charging problem. 150kW is fine. On a long trip you have to stop anyway every 3h or so. Doesn't matter if charging takes 10 or 20 minutes, you actually enjoy to stop a bit. My point: don't choose a car based on top charging speed above 150kW.

Another issue is that those high charges are only peak. Most of the charging process will occur at <200kW.

 

Some months ago I used a new Tesla 250kW charger. It was so fast my kid was complaining he didn't have enough time to play.

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15 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

People overthink the charging problem.

They do and they don´t.

If you´re lucky enough to own your own house and have a charger there or live in a city where there are a plethora of chargers then you would think people are overthinking it.

If our landlady would even countenance having a charger built here(she wouldn´t,unless she could make money out of it) then I´d need about a 30metre cable which I´d have to lay across the path etc to charge.

The nearest charger at the moment is about 10 mins drive from me,although we have 2 at work I´ve never not seen them without a car hooked up to them.

What does drive me crazy is the people who complain that a car only gives you 300km or however much before you need to charge it. Seriously how many people drive that distance regularly in one go. The great majority of people I know use their car to go to work, shopping etc and yes maybe once per year drive off on holiday for which you could plan.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Keleth said:

.. or live in a city where there are a plethora of chargers ...

 

 

Things will dramatically change very soon, supermarkets, shopping centers, etc, are moving already to install new chargers in their premises.  Aldi Nord is right now rolling out installations, about two chargers per shop in their 2200 shops in the EU.   Funny enough the first ones are being installed right now in Portugal (about 500 charging points).

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Unfortunately Portugal came up with some weird "single card" charging approach. I.e. one card for all. I don't know the details, but a friend told me on the phone it basically kills or reduces competition. I'm going to check it out soon, as a relative just bought an EV there. I'm getting concerned that overall charging prices will increase due to cartel, government interference or general lack of competition.

 

That's why charging at work is so important. Employers can provide this benefit tax free in most countries, and solves charging problems for many people who can't charge at home. At the same time, it works as some sort of counterbalance to these cartelization of the energy suppliers.

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Germany not long ago introduced a new regulation and every charging station must accept payment with debit and credit card without any other customer card.   But there is a transition time and it won't be active until July 2023.

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At some point, the cheap electricity will be phased out, the Governments will need to put a tax on it, to replace the TAX they are losing from Petrol/Diesel car as they become fewer and fewer.

 

Most of the price you pay for Petrol/diesel is tax, they just cannot afford to lose that, maybe we will move to a km charge of EVs.

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48 minutes ago, yesterday said:

At some point, the cheap electricity will be phased out, the Governments will need to put a tax on it, to replace the TAX they are losing from Petrol/Diesel car as they become fewer and fewer.

 

Most of the price you pay for Petrol/diesel is tax, they just cannot afford to lose that, maybe we will move to a km charge of EVs.

Thanks Energiewende, this won't be a problem: they will build more coal power stations for those EVs and then charge "environment tax" on this electricity. 

 

 

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As I read this thread, it occurred to me that I have never considered what the cost of charging our EV will be. I asked Himself - he doesn't know either. Not something we have really thought about but know it will be cheaper than buying diesel even considering the range reduction.

 

So there.

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43 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

As I read this thread, it occurred to me that I have never considered what the cost of charging our EV will be. I asked Himself - he doesn't know either. Not something we have really thought about but know it will be cheaper than buying diesel even considering the range reduction.

 

So there.

 

Are you having an outlet for charging installed that connects to your apartment's electric meter?  If so, that is the ideal solution.  Public charging is getting substantially more expensive. 

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Just now, CincyInDE said:

 

Are you having an outlet for charging installed that connects to your apartment's electric meter?  If so, that is the ideal solution.  Public charging is getting substantially more expensive. 

 

Yes, we are. We will pay the landlord for installation in our Tiefgarage space.

 

Bonus, Himself's electric bike was delivered today. I guess he can use it for that, too.

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So then to figure the cost, you just need the car's efficiency (kWh / 100 km), how many kilometers (km) you will drive per whatever, and your household electric rate (€ / kWh). 

 

example:

 

20 kWh / 100 km   *   500 km / month   *  0.30 € / kWh == 30€ / month

 

you'll have some efficiency losses during charging (less than 5%), but this is a good ballpark number. 

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47 minutes ago, CincyInDE said:

So then to figure the cost, you just need the car's efficiency (kWh / 100 km), how many kilometers (km) you will drive per whatever, and your household electric rate (€ / kWh). 

 

example:

 

20 kWh / 100 km   *   500 km / month   *  0.30 € / kWh == 30€ / month

 

you'll have some efficiency losses during charging (less than 5%), but this is a good ballpark number. 

 

Some EVs show you the current kWh usage including the charging loss. Factor in a cold-weather decrease in range of 15% 5 (2WD) to 19% (AWD) for the Ioniq 5.

 

This website should give you a rough idea of charging costs when planning a specific trip:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/

 

Usually it shows you the estimated charging costs at each stop but not all are showing a price today. I also set it to 100% SoC for checking out routes for longer trips.

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