Electric vehicles in Germany - all the ins-and-outs!

590 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

If they pay their employees shit wages, none of them will have EV's.

If they have shit wages and long car commutes and no garage at home, at least they will have options when EVs get cheaper.

At some point charging costs for people without garages will be the problem.

 

It's worrysome that since a year companies found out of this issue and are raising prices of public charging. This is not a major problem for adoption, because adoption is unavoidable, but a serious problem because it prevents owners from reaching the holy grail of cheap running costs.

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And at least the higher management will have enough money to buy EVs.  Those EVs been charged at the workplace is already a win for everyone.  

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4 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Yeah, right now management buys plugin hybrids and never charge them...

I know my FK does it...

 

 

Giving E-plates and e-perks and e-benefits to plug-in hybrids was the worst decision ever.   

 

I would bet that 90% of every plug in hybrid sold is never plugged.  And it becomes 99.99% when talking about company cars.

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

How are they not contributing? Is this a US thing?

 

Apparently, see the article I was originally quoting.

 

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

I still think the best way forward is to make legislation that forces companies with parking to provide free charging to employees. Companies won't complain much, because it's a tax-free benefit, we solve charging points issues and we solve overpriced charging.

If free charging is not accepted, then a competitive price is also ok.

 

1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

If they pay their employees shit wages, none of them will have EV's.

 

Exactly! If I consider a mittelstand company I used to work for...the boss and a few of the department heads could get themselves a fancy EV, but the rest of us (as long as were are being financially prudent) could not afford that. So they would be charging up for free at work and the rest of us low paid workers would still have to be forking out at the pump.

 

To be fair, I am still for the free charging. EV's are required and if free charging helps to open up the market and ultimately result in cheaper EV's then we need to do it. But I also understand the innate unfairness and hence, for example, an EV tax in Louisiana.

 

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26 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

Apparently, see the article I was originally quoting.

 

 

 

Exactly! If I consider a mittelstand company I used to work for...the boss and a few of the department heads could get themselves a fancy EV, but the rest of us (as long as were are being financially prudent) could not afford that. So they would be charging up for free at work and the rest of us low paid workers would still have to be forking out at the pump.

 

To be fair, I am still for the free charging. EV's are required and if free charging helps to open up the market and ultimately result in cheaper EV's then we need to do it. But I also understand the innate unfairness and hence, for example, an EV tax in Louisiana.

 

 

It doesn't have to be for free.   The whole point is been able to charge your can in the most obvious place you could charge it, instead of taking away street charging places needed by others.

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2 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

Giving E-plates and e-perks and e-benefits to plug-in hybrids was the worst decision ever.   

 

I would bet that 90% of every plug in hybrid sold is never plugged.  And it becomes 99.99% when talking about company cars.

Netherlands reached such conclusion 2 or 3 years ago and stopped giving phev benefits to company cars.

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The whole electric grid infrastructure in most of the U.S. needs to be repaired in order to be able to supply all the EV chargers. That would include replacing coal power in the states that use the most of it. They need to work from the bottom of the chain upwards.

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I charge my car on public charging mostly SWM and Supercharger which costs me between 0.49 €/kwh to 0.69 €/kwh.

 

What are typical costs of charging for people living in Munich who have charging infrastructure at home garage?

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4 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

Giving E-plates and e-perks and e-benefits to plug-in hybrids was the worst decision ever.   

 

I would bet that 90% of every plug in hybrid sold is never plugged.  And it becomes 99.99% when talking about company cars.

1of the blokes at work brother owns a Messtechnik firm and he gave his 3 employees the Toyota plug in hybrid as company cars.Last week it was time to claim their new company car and when they gave back the Toyota the charging cables were still wrapped up and zip tied in the original packing.

Their thoughts were that if the company pays for their petrol why bother using the electric part of it. 

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57 minutes ago, DanglingPointer said:

 

I charge my car on public charging mostly SWM and Supercharger which costs me between 0.49 €/kwh to 0.69 €/kwh.

 

What are typical costs of charging for people living in Munich who have charging infrastructure at home garage?

 

Around 30c

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19 hours ago, DanglingPointer said:

 

I charge my car on public charging mostly SWM and Supercharger which costs me between 0.49 €/kwh to 0.69 €/kwh.

...

 

I have been charging for nothing lately at SWM by using Bonnet + referral codes.  Dig around here to find them and use mine (R5EEXJ)!

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When management (my boss' boss) found out we bought an EV he wisecracked that they were paying employees too much.  Being a DINK made affording a Tesla much easier. 

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1 hour ago, CincyInDE said:

When management (my boss' boss) found out we bought an EV he wisecracked that they were paying employees too much.  Being a DINK made affording a Tesla much easier. 

Mine too, then I told him I bought it with Tesla stock and he shut up, as I told him a year earlier to invest on it and he didn't.

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On 09/05/2022, 11:51:05, pappnase said:

@CincyInDE @MikeMelga Thanks both, it was just idle curiosity, TBH I'm not gonna buy a new car anytime soon. My eyesight isn't up to driving anymore and so not a lot of point, but I had always wondered so I thought it was worth asking.

 

I know you got responses weeks ago but I don't think any of them actually answered your question.

The high-voltage battery of the EVs discharges relatively slowly. It's more or less negligible but the manufacturers give guidelines if the car is going to be left for very long periods.

Anyway, the relevant info is that the EVs have 12V batteries just like all the ICEs, only they are generally much smaller because they don't have to do much work... they just need to be able to support the always-on electrics and be capable of booting up all the electronic systems when the car is turned on.

Because the 12V battery capacity is pretty small, they can discharge a little faster (specially if alarm systems or other user communication interfaces are active). My car is able to periodically charge the 12V battery from the high-voltage battery when it is left sitting for a long time, but for some strange reason it only does this a maximum of 1 time.

However, since the 12V battery is small it is also extremely easy to jump start! So, if you were to have you car sitting unused for long enough to drain the 12V, you could ask a friendly neighbour for a jump just like you used to with your ICE.

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Hi toBnruG

I was really thinking about the fact that the petrol in my car doesn't just disappear if I leave the car for a few months whereas the electricity in a battery eventually will go away.

The answers I got about how long that takes were exactly what I wanted to know.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, toBnruG said:

However, since the 12V battery is small it is also extremely easy to jump start! So, if you were to have you car sitting unused for long enough to drain the 12V, you could ask a friendly neighbour for a jump just like you used to with your ICE.

 

Thinking out loud. Seems like there would be a way to jump start it from your own EV batteries.:ph34r:

 

I know nothing.

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On 20/05/2022, 12:04:23, fraufruit said:

Thinking out loud. Seems like there would be a way to jump start it from your own EV batteries.

I'm not 100% certain but I assume that, for safety and reliability reasons, the switches which isolate the 12V system from the high-voltage (up to 800V) system can only be operated from the 12V side. So yes it seems incredible that a fully charged EV might not be able to start due to a flat 12V battery, but that seems to be the case on most if not all models.

 

I assume one reason is that the high-voltage battery is so valuable. Imagine a rodent or bunch of insects gets under the hood and causes a short of the 12V system... okay the cheap 12V battery gets discharged and in the worst case might have to be replaced. But imagine this also caused the entire lithium-ion battery array also got deeply discharged to the point where it cannot be recovered. That would be a very expensive insurance claim.

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