Electric vehicles in Germany - all the ins-and-outs!

590 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Sorry, but you are comparing second hand cars with new cars.

Yes, of course. 

I just think "If I were to look for a car to buy next week, what requirement would I look for?". I would want it to be very cheap. And very cheap EV just do not exist yet. All fine with all you say, but if I were on the market, this would be the end of me looking at EV.

 

2 hours ago, circuits said:

Wrong use-case.

Not "wrong"-case, rather MY-case. And I guess it's the scenario for many people.

 

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7 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

All fine with all you say, but if I were on the market, this would be the end of me looking at EV.

 

Yes

 

If you can't afford one, you can't buy one. Just like with everything else.

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Yes, clearly it is dangerous to have no earth in summer... ah, I see it is called a grounding rod. We are on clay soil. Possibly too short indeed. Occurs in severe drought, as we had each summer for several years. For a while it caused the fuses to blow. Our electrics are likely dodgy indeed, installed by cowboys.

 

Google Zoe red nose. There are other instances where you get a red nose such as when it is too wet... clearly a problem with the charging station. There has been a lot of racking of brains but once you are in the know...  

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6 hours ago, emkay said:

She thought that something like a 2018 Renault Zoe might be an option.

 

Beware of the following: a guy from our flying club - or rather his wife - almost bought a Zoe, all paperwork was filled out & about to sign when dealer produced an additional leasing contract (or something similar) for the battery.  Costs on top of course.

At that point contract was torn up & my friends left.  Bought a large second-hand Toyota hybrid (model no longer manufactured) & is happy with it.

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26 minutes ago, HEM said:

At that point contract was torn up & my friends left.  Bought a large second-hand Toyota hybrid (model no longer manufactured) & is happy with it.

What are the thoughts of the members here on plug-in hybrids? We are planning to change our car and are not sure of relying on an EV. The rowhouse we live in does not have an attached garage. The garages are a few doors away and there is no provision for a plug point there. I don't see any way to have one in front of the house as it would mean running the charging cable over the sidewalk.

Besides, we like long road trips and don't think we will enjoy with a 30 minute break every three hours or so. So, we are thinking that a PHEV would be a safer bet for the time being.

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Hybrids are the worst thing ever.  You go EV to save on maintenance and now you have double the things that could go wrong.  And a super tiny battery.

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14 minutes ago, RPC said:

 

What are the thoughts of the members here on plug-in hybrids? We are planning to change our car and are not sure of relying on an EV. The rowhouse we live in does not have an attached garage. The garages are a few doors away and there is no provision for a plug point there. I don't see any way to have one in front of the house as it would mean running the charging cable over the sidewalk.

Besides, we like long road trips and don't think we will enjoy with a 30 minute break every three hours or so. So, we are thinking that a PHEV would be a safer bet for the time being.

 

Do you own your row house?

 

Quote

 

 

The EV we have ordered charges from 20% to 80% in 18 minutes. Less time than it takes to go to the loo and drink a cappuccino. We like to stop every couple of hours to stretch our legs anyway. We have time.

 

As for hybrids, they certainly don't burn as much fuel. I rented one in the U.S. some years ago and I got 41 miles per gallon instead of about 25 mpg in an ICE of the same size. It wasn't a plug in.

 

We were talking today about planning nice dinners out close to charging stations. 4 hr. free parking. :lol:

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4 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Yes

 

If you can't afford one, you can't buy one. Just like with everything else.

Yes but no.

Could also be that you can afford it but still decide not to buy it because the alternatives are much more economical.

Being able to afford more, it's not always a good reason for paying more.

 

Anyway congrats for ordering a new EV. I had the chance to drive one recently and it was very pleasant.

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Could solve two problems at once: lots of drivers do not take breaks, continue when they are tired => car wrecks.

 

If the vehicle needs a while to charge, the driver is forced to rest too, very good 😃

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What about heating? Petrol vehicles use waste heat from the combustion, how is an €vehicle heated? Does the motor produce waste heat, or must the heat be specially created?

 

What if there is a wreck on the freeway in winter? You might be stuck for hours, might have to go cold so you have enough battery to drive to the next services. Make sure to keep warm clothes in the vehicle!

 

Like the "maximum" range kilometer figures, heating capacity/time figures might be interesting, what manufacturers specify. And real-world maximum and minimum figures of course.

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I keep blankets in the boot. Heating is next to non existant in zoe... or maybe I have just not found the knob. I am not good at all with knobs.

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2 hours ago, Fietsrad said:

What about heating? Petrol vehicles use waste heat from the combustion, how is an €vehicle heated? Does the motor produce waste heat, or must the heat be specially created?

 

What if there is a wreck on the freeway in winter? You might be stuck for hours, might have to go cold so you have enough battery to drive to the next services. Make sure to keep warm clothes in the vehicle!

 

Like the "maximum" range kilometer figures, heating capacity/time figures might be interesting, what manufacturers specify. And real-world maximum and minimum figures of course.

 

The battery is used to power the air heating system and if available, heat pumps, heated seats, heated steering wheel and heated windows (especially useful to prevent fogging).

 

Yes, being stuck on a cold highway traffic jam for hours could be problematic. The good thing about an EV is that you don't have to have the engine running to heat it with the above methods. Here's a rough calculation that I paraphrased from somewhere on the interwebz:

 

A 2 litre engine, idling at 700 rpm, will consume about 1.2 litres per hour. A 50 litre tank then gives you 42 hours of heat. An EV with a 58 kilowatt hour battery pack can run a 1.4kW cabin heater for 41 hours. If you travelled 100km from home before getting stuck, the gasoline car will have roughly 34 hours of heating time left , and the EV will have 25-30 hours of heating time left. However if you have heated seats which typically only use 50 watts each and have 4 occupants (in addition to idling electronics), you could triple that time.

 

tldr; Worried about being stuck in an EV on a highway in the winter? Buy heated seats and you'll have at least twice as much heated idling capacity.

 

 

Citations:

1.36kW heater consumption is based on the experiments of a Model 3 owner who left it on overnight in the winter

This Norwegian countryside winter range test of the Cupra Born and VW ID.3 with 58kWh batteries managed 339-340km 

https://nye-naf-no.translate.goog/bilguiden/bilmodell/cupra-born/rekkeviddetest-cupra-born?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://nye-naf-no.translate.goog/bilguiden/bilmodell/volkswagen-id-3/Rekkeviddetest-volkswagen-id-3?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

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11 hours ago, optimista said:

I keep blankets in the boot. Heating is next to non existant in zoe...

 

For anyone who owned a Renault 5 in the dim & distant past this will bring back memories  :(

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On 2/12/2022, 2:22:45, Fietsrad said:

What about heating? Petrol vehicles use waste heat from the combustion, how is an €vehicle heated? Does the motor produce waste heat, or must the heat be specially created?

 

What if there is a wreck on the freeway in winter? You might be stuck for hours, might have to go cold so you have enough battery to drive to the next services. Make sure to keep warm clothes in the vehicle!

 

Like the "maximum" range kilometer figures, heating capacity/time figures might be interesting, what manufacturers specify. And real-world maximum and minimum figures of course.

Many examples out there. The EVs in general perform better than ICE cars, but media of course can't make money saying nice things about EVs...

I say better, because the ICE car on idle would fill your cabin with vapors.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/21/car-and-driver-does-its-own-tesla-cold-weather-tests/

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What about if there is a jam on the freeway, stop-and-go? I would keep my petrol engine running if I could see that the whole lot were creeping forward, but I might not be moving for many short periods, which soon add up.

 

Would an €lectric vehicle be more efficient, because the motor would not be running while the vehicle was stopped?

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Now read that twice as 'what about if there is jam on the freeway' and both times trying to work out what the difference in fuel would mean for a jammy road surface...:lol:

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3 hours ago, Fietsrad said:

What about if there is a jam on the freeway, stop-and-go? I would keep my petrol engine running if I could see that the whole lot were creeping forward, but I might not be moving for many short periods, which soon add up.

 

Would an €lectric vehicle be more efficient, because the motor would not be running while the vehicle was stopped?

Not even gonna bother with rough calculations for this one. Any EV with a mid-sized battery would kick a combustion vehicle's ass in this case, no question. 

 

Add in automatic stop & go cruise control and it'll be easy going the whole way.

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