Electric vehicles in Germany - all the ins-and-outs!

590 posts in this topic

We aren't getting a wall box. The cost of just putting in a wall outlet is high enough. The electricians, cable, etc. costs the most.

 

As for car prices, all my life I have saved up to buy cars. After my first one, I made the $ 114 dollar payments and saved for my next car. We do the same today. Buy a car and continue putting money back and investing it for 10 or 12 years and then buy another car. It's called paying yourself instead of paying a bank. Over the years, you can afford better and better cars. BTW, Himself bought his first new car at 58.

 

Sorry, just stating the obvious. My son has no money saved for his next car. He thinks it will fall out of the sky. He doesn't listen to me so you you don't have to either.:D

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8 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Buy a car and continue putting money back and investing it for 10 or 12 years and then buy another car.

You being American know what living from paycheck to paycheck means so perhaps you can tell me where I get the money to invest or save?

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It almost impossible, if you are living from pay check to pay check ...

 

But in theory, you have to save something each month and let it build up for bigger expenses. 

 

Maybe putting what you have in an S&P ETF every so often may help ( but you take a risk ) to increase its value  -- But its going to take a long time, years and years.

 

Or but Tesla stock and maybe get better returns, but the chance of losing money is higher as well.

 

Or do as  Walter White  did and cook and sell  meth.  for a year. making 80 million dollars, but there is a chance you will get caught and sent to jail :unsure:

 

 

 

 

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Where there is a will there is a way. Once, we had a huge drop in income so we didn't eat out for a whole year. Only shopped in stores like Netto and Aldi. 

 

I started with a savings program at my work when I was about 22 and never stopped. 

 

I still have the mindset that there will never be enough. It is ingrained in many of us.

 

When you buy a car on credit, you are giving the bank some hundreds every month. When you pay cash for a dirt cheap car, you give that money to yourself. It took me years to work my way up to a good car.

 

The key is starting young but it's never too late. Do people think they can live off of their crappy pensions?

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5 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Where there is a will there is a way. Once, we had a huge drop in income so we didn't eat out for a whole year. Only shopped in stores like Netto and Aldi. 

A whole year without eating out?

Shop at Netto etc?

That´s standard for us as it is.

11 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

When you pay cash for a dirt cheap car, you give that money to yourself.

And pray tell me where would someone find a dirt cheap EV?

7 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Maybe putting what you have in an S&P ETF every so often may help ( but you take a risk ) to increase its value  -- But its going to take a long time, years and years.

Ok let´s say I could save €100 a month.I invest that and double the return every month (yer right) so after about  years I could afford an EV maybe.

There again to save that €100 a month we´d have to skip a few meals here and there or maybe stop my extra pension contributions or turn the heating off a couple of days a month etc.

 

13 minutes ago, yesterday said:

It almost impossible, if you are living from pay check to pay check ...

Exactly and I get so fucked off with hearing from people with money how easy it is to save money.(Not aimed at you btw).

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My life experience is from many, many years ago. You know that. I started making it happen beginning when I was a single mother with no child support. I put 15% of my pay into a company savings plan, housed and fed my son, paid for his daycare 9 hrs. a day  and had a very cheap, old car. As the years went by, my situation got better.

 

The year without eating out to which I referred was when had a 33.3% drop in income all of a sudden. Our priorities changed. That is all. The good thing is we weren't in debt and never have been. We were used to shopping in our local Rewe and Edeka. That had to change. 

 

We have both saved what we could and invested as much as we could. I don't see the shame in that. We are not people "from money". 

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7 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

As the years went by, my situation got better.

And there you have it.

Because of various choices our situation is worse financially but a better life.

I´m happy how we are,yer obviously more cash would be good but even now I tend to choose time off over overtime.

 

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51 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Or do as  Walter White  did and cook and sell  meth.  for a year. making 80 million dollars, but there is a chance you will get caught and sent to jail :unsure:

Hmm doesn´t appear to be much of a market for meth around here or maybe worth a try ;)

 

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2 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Because of various choices our situation is worse financially but a better life.

I´m happy how we are,yer obviously more cash would be good but even now I tend to choose time off over overtime.

 

Exactly why Himself retired 2 yrs. early, less money but time off to do what he wants.

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What about getting vaccinated 87 times and selling the vaccination certificates? Might be enough for a decent car. https://m.focus.de/gesundheit/coronavirus/um-impfpaesse-zu-verkaufen-mann-aus-sachsen-liess-sich-scheinbar-87-mal-gegen-corona-impfen_id_77611507.html

Quote

 

According to a report, a man from Magdeburg was vaccinated 87 times against the coronavirus. He allegedly sold the vaccination cards to opponents of the vaccination, bringing a new one with him for each vaccination. The criminal investigation department is investigating.

Deepl-translation

 

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Enquiring about an EV today, I got the follow response to a specification I sent the company:

 

Attached you will find an offer about an EV you requested we will get in April 2023.
The car is already ordered in these options.
The Price will be XXXXXX
Car will be registered on our company, we are arranging all the Parts about the Bafa.
So for you, FixPrice is XXXXXX. There is no Bafa anymore to order.
Even when the Bafa will change, this Price is the Fixprice for that car.

 

The guy is German, and wrote in English, so forgive the grammar issues please.

They have some already in stock, but not the particular model I want. I did find a few other places with this model available Sept/Oct 2022, but they offer quite a good discount over these places. Bought my last car from this place 9 years ago now. Other side of Germany, but they deliver the vehicle and seem to bulk order.

 

Can someone please explain about BAFA. As I can see it's a rebate (https://www.bafa.de/DE/Energie/Energieeffizienz/Elektromobilitaet/Neuen_Antrag_stellen/neuen_antrag_stellen.html)

Is there some issue where you will not get this after the end of 2022?

What does the company mean about taking care of the BAFA?

 

If I sign a contract in 2022, does the purchase count as 2022 or 2023 if it's delivered in 2023? Just wondering how this works from a tax perspective, as I am self employed and the existing car is in the business.

 

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4 hours ago, scook17 said:

Can someone please explain about BAFA. As I can see it's a rebate (https://www.bafa.de/DE/Energie/Energieeffizienz/Elektromobilitaet/Neuen_Antrag_stellen/neuen_antrag_stellen.html)

Is there some issue where you will not get this after the end of 2022?

What does the company mean about taking care of the BAFA?

 

OK, 4th time explaining this in this thread - it's also in the first post ;)

 

1. BAFA Umweltbonus until the end of 2025:


If you purchase an EV, there is a government subsidy of up to €3570 that the manufacturer subtracts during the sale. This is currently valid until 2025.

 


2. BAFA Innovationsprämie until the end of 2022:
 

There's also a consumer subsidy of up to €6000 called the Innovationsprämie which is currently available until the end of 2022 (unless extended again like late last year). As soon as you receive the EV - but not sooner that that - can you apply for it:

 

https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/elektromobilitaet/kaufen/foerderung-elektroautos/
 

 

tldr; if you order an EV this year and don't receive the car in 2022, you'll still get the Umweltbonus of up to €3570 that the manufacturer deducts from the sale price, but you won't receive the Innovationsprämie of up to €6000 directly from BAFA which depends on you receiving the vehicle then making the application by December 31st, 2022.

 

...unless the government extends the Innovationsprämie, but there's no sign of that yet.

 

 

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fwiw no EV delivery dates are trustworthy at the moment. It's total chaos.

 

Here's one example: VW has thousands of almost-finished ID-series EV's parked all around Germany for months, just waiting for a couple of electronic control boards and cameras. Meanwhile when new parts do come, they're often getting installed in the vehicles currently being finished in the factory - which means some customers who ordered much earlier are getting screwed over.

 

Another example: the dealer receives a customer's EV but the papers requesting the payment from the manufacturer haven't arrived yet. Then when the official receipt comes and the payment is made, there's no reply for a week or even more. Then some people are waiting up to a couple of weeks for their vehicle registration papers from the government. So even if a car has an October 2022 delivery date, a customer may not receive it until 2023, thus no BAFA Innovationsprämie.

 

Meanwhile prices are going up. Right now it's looking more affordable to compromise on customization and to buy a pre-configured vehicle that the dealer already has or who's already slated to receive it in the next few months and not the end of the year.

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On 4/6/2022, 8:21:02, Keleth said:

A whole year without eating out?

Shop at Netto etc?

That´s standard for us as it is.

If you can't live below your means, then bemoaning the price of an EV is like complaining about cruise line prices.  You are not the market EVs and cruise lines are aiming for....pubs are.

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8 hours ago, catjones said:

If you can't live below your means, then bemoaning the price of an EV is like complaining about cruise line prices.  You are not the market EVs and cruise lines are aiming for...pubs are.

Ah silly me I thought EVs were supposed to be for everyone. I thought they were supposed to be there to help the climate crisis.

Strange that you seem to think there´s no problem with them being priced the same as a mid-range ICE (the cheaper ones).

Most of this thread is actually about how the price of EVs needs to come down to enable them to be the future but you seem to think that´s not a problem and that EVs are aimed at a certain market.

If it wasn´t for the pollution problems of ICE then EVs would be and would always remain a luxury item but their supposed to be the saviour so the prices need to come down.

I never realised helping the environment should be limited to someones spending power.

 

 

 

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So just a few hours after my last posts here, Habeck announced no more subsidies for plugin hybrid EV as of 2023 and that the current plan for pure EVs is to keep the €3570 Umweltbonus and reduce the Innovationsprämie paid directly to consumers from BAFA from a maximum of €6000 down to €4000 in 2023, €3000 in 2024 in 2025.

 

Then the subsidies are all done.

 

None of this is finalized yet - this is how people have so far interpreted Habeck's comments:

 

Quote

 

Laut Berichten wird es in 2023 folgende Fördersätze geben:

 

3000 Euro netto Herstelleranteil (macht 3570 Euro brutto)

3000 Euro netto Staat (bleibt bei 3000 Euro, Staat macht alles in netto)

1000 Euro Innovationsprämie (bleibt bei 1000 Euro, Staat macht alles in netto)

 

Das macht dann 7000 Euro netto bzw. 7570 Euro brutto, die man als Förderung erhält.

 

 

Laut Berichten wird es in 2024 & 2025 folgende Fördersätze geben:

 

3000 Euro netto Herstelleranteil (macht 3570 Euro brutto)

3000 Euro netto Staat (bleibt bei 3000 Euro, Staat macht alles in netto)

0 Euro Innovationsprämie (bleibt bei 0 Euro, Staat macht alles in netto)

 

Das macht dann 6000 Euro netto bzw. 6570 Euro brutto, die man als Förderung erhält.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Keleth said:

Ah silly me I thought EVs were supposed to be for everyone. I thought they were supposed to be there to help the climate crisis.

Strange that you seem to think there´s no problem with them being priced the same as a mid-range ICE (the cheaper ones).

Most of this thread is actually about how the price of EVs needs to come down to enable them to be the future but you seem to think that´s not a problem and that EVs are aimed at a certain market.

If it wasn´t for the pollution problems of ICE then EVs would be and would always remain a luxury item but their supposed to be the saviour so the prices need to come down.

I never realised helping the environment should be limited to someones spending power.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you understand about supply and demand. That will keep the prices up for a while. They can't build them fast enough yet to meet the demand. Hence, people have to wait a year or more to get one.

 

Car companies have and are spending billions upon billions to build new factories to build EV's. They aren't in it for charity. Business 101.

 

Most people can't afford to put solar panels on their houses, if they even own a house. We don't.

 

Give it some years. The prices will come down and there will be more cheaper models.

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