Head of German navy steps down over Ukraine

120 posts in this topic

37 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

 

Bless.

 

You do realise that the Donbas also held a referendum in favour of leaving the Ukraine but Russia refused to accept it.

Explain that.

BBC take on this 

 

Ukraine crisis: Will the Donetsk referendum matter? - BBC News

 

In Brief 

"In the view of the Kiev authorities and Western governments the referendum was a sham and a violation of international law which went ahead without legal provisions and lacking unanimous backing from the local population.

No international observers were present and there were many irregularities: not enough polling stations, no up-to-date voter lists and no proper checks on identity.

The Ukrainian "anti-terrorist operation" has been gaining momentum in eastern Ukraine, and the referendum is not going to stop Kiev's drive to reimpose Ukrainian sovereignty."

 

"About three million ballot papers were said to have been printed, with the combined population of the two regions standing at about 6.7 million. Ukrainian TV showed ballot papers being printed on a regular printer and bearing no protection marks.

As the separatists control only some towns and cities, it is not yet clear how much of the territory of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic the referendum actually covered."

 

 

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Also: the Cyprus occupation by Turkish forces in 1974 was used by Russia in 2014 to create a fantasy world where the Ukrainian government is run by Nazis (with Jewish Prime Minister, but who cares, these must be Jiddish speaking Nazis). 

 

Greece at the time was indeed controlled by the fascist government, and there was a risk of it attacking Cyprus and killing Turk Cypriots. You may claim that at least back then the full-scale civil war between two Cyprus ethnic groups was very likely. 

 

There was nothing like this in Ukraine, so Russia created this fake fantasy world. And it worked. 

 

I wonder what kind of fantasy casus belli will be made up today? 

 

I think: fake Ukrainian soldiers will "invade" Russia. These will be FSB agents in UA uniforms shooting and killing own soldiers. 

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Just realized that China might buy ALL gas, oil and coal from Russia, that were meant to Europe. China is having serious energy issues and it relies too much on imports.

 

This crisis might just be an attempt to take Ukraine, but if it fails, Russia can use it as an excuse for both reducing exports to EU and to hike prices of a deal with China. Or just put both competing for it.

From this perspective, Russia doesn't have much to lose.

Problem is, technically the pipeline is not done, so this might indicate this crisis won't go anywhere until they finish it.

 

On another point, Russia might wait for the end of winter Olympics to do anything, to avoid upsetting Beijing. If so, it puts less pressure on gas reserves, as it comes later in the winter.

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1984 by George Orwell.

The world is split into 3 warring powers, Oceania, Eastasia and Eurasia and 2 out of the 3 are always at war. Sound familiar?

 

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10 minutes ago, French bean said:

1984 by George Orwell.

The world is split into 3 warring powers, Oceania, Eastasia and Eurasia and 2 out of the 3 are always at war. Sound familiar?

 

No.

 

This sounds more familiar to me:

4B88nvV.jpg.c5f1ac4d35ae1baf69746aac8441

 

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39 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

From this perspective, Russia doesn't have much to lose.

 

Except for all the properties and money in the West. And travel bans. 

The ruling elite has a lot to lose. But if Putin has a dilemma: no vacation in the French Alps or loss of power, he will act accordingly. 

 

Germany does not want active military involvement, this is understandable. But Germany can help a lot suggesting that Putin can get a political refugee status in Berlin. He might not do the worst thing. 

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1 hour ago, yourkeau said:

But Germany can help a lot suggesting that Putin can get a political refugee status in Berlin. He might not do the worst thing. 

 

 

ROFL

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This is part of an interesting article -

 

Quote

Putin said in April, 2014, soon after the annexation of Crimea, that it was “necessary to defend the interests of Russian speakers in Ukraine.” People here in Kharkiv would disagree. The war has destroyed millions of lives in the densely populated region, divided families and breaking friendships, but there is one area where the violence has succeeded: galvanizing much of the population against Russian aggression. “We have two veteran artists at our theater, who are in their 90s. They say that they loved Russia as their motherland until the first shot of separatists at Ukrainian citizens,” the director of Saxalin-UA, Evgeny Safonov, tells Rolling Stone. “Today, when the Russian army is on our border threatening another invasion, Putin should understand that he has lost the most important people. He lost us, Russian speaking Ukrainians.”

 

the rest

 

Seems that not all Russians in the east of Ukraine are behind Putin.

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9 hours ago, yourkeau said:

Except for all the properties and money in the West. And travel bans. 

The ruling elite has a lot to lose. But if Putin has a dilemma: no vacation in the French Alps or loss of power, he will act accordingly. 

You didn't get what I said. He won't lose a thing if it doesn't escalate any further, and gets excuses to put China vs Europe bidding for gas.

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Interesting concept Mike but China will pay any price to ensure energy security. They can't afford not to and I would have thought that Russia would be in a position to ramp up production if need be just as they do with oil.

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6 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

You didn't get what I said. He won't lose a thing if it doesn't escalate any further, and gets excuses to put China vs Europe bidding for gas.

He doesn´t need an excuse for that. On the contrary, he´d need one if he didn´t try to achieve that.

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On 27/01/2022, 23:10:36, Eric7 said:

 

My username on various other forums is in fact EricTheRed but not for the reason you are meaning here

 

Seagulls and trawlers?

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9 minutes ago, Mackle said:

 

Seagulls and trawlers?

 

1966 was a glorious year for English football - Eric was born.

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Looks like Vice Admiral Schwachscheißer has impeccable timing. He retired just in time to miss the €100 billion that Germany is going to splash out on its military this year.

 

Thanks, Vlad!

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