Attest vs Hausrecht

58 posts in this topic

Sincerely, since I've been back in a city ( Hamburg ) for the past two or three weeks as against rural life in Greece , I am glad we have masks. As a bus user currently, I would prefer to wear a mask ( though I hate them ) as the Great Unwashed are really underway and even without corona I worry I could catch other people's viruses anyway. 

 

I am not sure how many people on the bus I have shared this week have even bothered to shower. 

And one particular very big woman today with her legs taking up two seats and her backpack otherwise preventing me from taking a seat and she didn't give a shit put me off public transport even more.

 

Luckily for me, her husband (?) opposite noticed my grief ie I couldn't see where I could sit, given the steam on my glasses and my general unsteadiness, and asked if I would like a seat. Bless him.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, robinson100 said:

 

So, do you really think it sensible to go out and about where lots of other people are, and risk contractig Covid 19?

As far as I know, you need to be fit to be able to be operated on, so why on earth would you want to risk your health by going shopping for furniture? sorry, but furniture can be ordered online. It is not "essential", and whilst it might be a nice distraction, going to a furniture outlet to have a good old look around, surely your own health should be your  highest priority right now?

 

Do you really need to know the details of my personal life and why I needed to visit the furniture store or just chatting?

To make it easy for you - about 2 hours ago I was not able to buy a food for my family in Aldi for the same reason.
 

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16 minutes ago, john g. said:

Sincerely, since I've been back in a city ( Hamburg ) for the past two or three weeks as against rural life in Greece , I am glad we have masks.

 

You had and you have the rights to wear masks all your life. Do not understand what's stopping you...

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1 hour ago, Maaxxx said:

Do you really need to know the details of my personal life and why I needed to visit the furniture store or just chatting?

To make it easy for you - about 2 hours ago I was not able to buy a food for my family in Aldi for the same reason.
 

 

Well, I'm going to suggest you find a suitable solution because the stores don't have to serve you. 

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I am always in and out of Aldi in less than 10 minutes :lol:

 

I'm sure the doc didn't mean exactly 10 minutes or you'll turn into a pumpkin sort of thing. I strongly suspect it's perfectly safe for you to do a quick food shop, even if it takes 15 minutes of wearing a mask. Spending hours in Höffner is another matter but as others have said, they have a good online presence and presumably you'd need anything delivered anyway.

 

Unfortunately the shit is getting far too serious now to allow people to be mask less indoors. 

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Looking back at this guy's TT history, he is a virus "mania" guy.  A guy with a serious lung condition (?) who has lost close relatives to Covid.  Who does not want to wear a mask because he needs (for private reasons) to buy some furniture. 

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Even with pulmonary/respiratory health issue, most MDs still recommend they wear masks.  

Wandering about with no mask in shops  is definitely more  risky for these patients.

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7 hours ago, snowingagain said:

Looking back at this guy's TT history, he is a virus "mania" guy.  A guy with a serious lung condition (?) who has lost close relatives to Covid.  Who does not want to wear a mask because he needs (for private reasons) to buy some furniture. 

aka a snowflake?

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I've been thinking about this and I don't think I would buy furniture online sight unseen. Too much hassle to return it if it looks like crap IRL.

 

Maybe some Ikea furniture because I know what most of it looks like and the quality.

 

Just musing.

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11 hours ago, murphaph said:

I am always in and out of Aldi in less than 10 minutes :lol:

 

I'm sure the doc didn't mean exactly 10 minutes or you'll turn into a pumpkin sort of thing. I strongly suspect it's perfectly safe for you to do a quick food shop, even if it takes 15 minutes of wearing a mask. Spending hours in Höffner is another matter but as others have said, they have a good online presence and presumably you'd need anything delivered anyway.

 

Unfortunately the shit is getting far too serious now to allow people to be mask less indoors. 

 

Medical masks are allowed in shops and to be honest I feel no difference with and without a mask.  FFP2 masks are another thing.  But since the OP wants to be unmasked, then medical masks could fulfill the requirement.

 

I go to Lidl very early in the morning (they open at 7:00) and I am as well out in 5 to 10 minutes.

 

And about furniture, I would try to wait if it is not really needed. After saying that, the wife wants something so she checked online and then after deciding which items she might want we went to the shop and checked them, all under 10 minutes too.

 

I would understand if you had to wear the mask for hours and hours everyday, then the medical exception would make sense,  but for just a few minutes a week it sounds to me like Querdenker problematic.

 

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But the problem stays - I am not able to execute my rights as a person with a proven medical condition. And only because shops makes their own rules disregarding what has been written in the Law.

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13 minutes ago, Maaxxx said:

But the problem stays - I am not able to execute my rights as a person with a proven medical condition. And only because shops makes their own rules disregarding what has been written in the Law.

Are you sure you're not just being awkward? Your're allowed by your doctor to wear a mask for long enough to do your food shopping. You don't need to go furniture shopping in the middle of a pandemic. If you think you're the only one modifying your behaviour right now, you are sorely mistaken. Plenty of us with no medical conditions are re-evaluating what's really necessary and what isn't.

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Well...not being a doctor or a law expert I would say:

- if I were OP suffering such health problem and wearing a mask more than 10 min would put me at risk...I wouldn't go to Ikea at all and try to do all online. Just for my own safety. If a masc is so bad for him imagine being in contact with some covid infected guy!

- there are some times, or situations, when governments need to put the group over the individual. Sometimes even for your own protection. When there is a fire firefighters don't let me walk towards the file violating my right to circulate freely. 

 

Anyways, good luck!

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29 minutes ago, Maaxxx said:

But the problem stays - I am not able to execute my rights as a person with a proven medical condition. And only because shops makes their own rules disregarding what has been written in the Law.

 

If you close your eyes and ignore reality it will get worse: Austria introduces full lockdown now, and compulsory vaccination starting from next year.

 

Isn't a full lockdown a more severe violation of fundamental rights? Wouldn't you be ready to do some small steps to prevent this catastrophe? 

 

 

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even though I find it strange, that somebody with compromised health situation would volunteer to walk into potentially dangerous environment unprotected, the legal/philosophical ramifications are intriguing... 

 

so I did some reading here https://www.nordkurier.de/ratgeber/befreiung-von-maskenpflicht-duerfen-geschaefte-dennoch-zutritt-verweigern-0741656812.html

The legal community seems to support the idea that, for the claim of Diskriminierung to be a valid argument, OP would have to present more than just an Attest about being exempt from the mask mandate. They'd need a "real" documented Behinderung with the accompanying Behindertenausweis

 

Quote

Ich habe ein Attest, das mich von der Maskenpflicht entbindet. Als ich neulich beim Betreten eines Möbel-Discounters in MV mein Attest vorzeigte, wurde mir der Einlass verweigert. Kann ich mich gegen diese Diskriminierung wehren? 

 

Laut aller Coronaverordnungen in Deutschland sind Menschen mit gesundheitlichen Einschränkungen wie zum Beispiel Asthma, Herzschwäche, chronische Lungenerkrankungen oder psychische Erkrankungen vom Tragen eines Mund-Nasen-Schutzes befreit, wenn sie dafür ein Attest vorzeigen können.

 

Dieses Attest dürfen nur Ärzte nach einer entsprechenden Untersuchung oder Konsultation ausstellen. Nur sie haben zu entscheiden, ob das Tragen einer Maske für den jeweiligen Patienten unzumutbar ist. Wird bei Vorlage des Attestes dann zum Beispiel vom Personal dennoch der Zugang zu einer Einrichtung verweigert, kann man die Polizei hinzuziehen.

 

Allerdings können sich Ladenbesitzer auch auf ihr Hausrecht berufen. Demnach können sie auch Kunden mit einem Attest den Zugang verweigern. Der Fall der Diskriminierung liegt nach Ansicht von Juristen erst vor, wenn der Kunde auch einen Behindertengrad vorweisen kann.

 

So, OP could call the police to demand access to that store - but unless he has a Behindertenausweis, his Attest won't get him in.

 

BTW, furniture shopping online is a lot of fun! My husband and I bought all our new furniture for our house online over the past year. Take your time to look at pictures, read people's reviews, measure your space exactly, draw up plans and envision what the furniture would look like. It helps to have a clear "style" preference, or concentrate on a color scheme, look for materials that you like. 

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2 hours ago, Maaxxx said:

But the problem stays - I am not able to execute my rights as a person with a proven medical condition. And only because shops makes their own rules disregarding what has been written in the Law.

 

No, you are disregarding the laws that say they can set the rules for their own businesses. The law says that you CAN enter an establishment that ALLOWS you in without a mask if you not wearing a mask is ALLOWED by them. The law does not say that they have to allow you in. Your situation of only being able to wear a mask for a limited amount of time does not enter you into a protected class. Build a bridge.

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2 hours ago, karin_brenig said:

even though I find it strange, that somebody with compromised health situation would volunteer to walk into potentially dangerous environment unprotected, the legal/philosophical ramifications are intriguing... 

 

so I did some reading here https://www.nordkurier.de/ratgeber/befreiung-von-maskenpflicht-duerfen-geschaefte-dennoch-zutritt-verweigern-0741656812.html

The legal community seems to support the idea that, for the claim of Diskriminierung to be a valid argument, OP would have to present more than just an Attest about being exempt from the mask mandate. They'd need a "real" documented Behinderung with the accompanying Behindertenausweis

 

 

So, OP could call the police to demand access to that store - but unless he has a Behindertenausweis, his Attest won't get him in.

 

BTW, furniture shopping online is a lot of fun! My husband and I bought all our new furniture for our house online over the past year. Take your time to look at pictures, read people's reviews, measure your space exactly, draw up plans and envision what the furniture would look like. It helps to have a clear "style" preference, or concentrate on a color scheme, look for materials that you like. 

Case closed it would seem. OP: Wear the mask or buy online. You are not being discriminated against unless you have a registered disability, not just your doctor's note :-)

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