Attest vs Hausrecht

58 posts in this topic

Hello everyone!

 

I have a pathology of the respiratory tract and recently because of the masks, the situation has worsened. For the time before the operation, the doctor wrote out a certificate exempting me from wearing a mask.

 

In two stores (hoffner, ikea) the same situation has happened – either put on a mask or leave a store. The clause from the NRW Coronaschutzverordnung about "Personen, die aus medizinischen Gründen keine Maske tragen könne" is of no interest to anyone. In hoffner-e, the administrator told me in plain text "Es ist mir egal, was im Gesetz geschrieben".

 

Is it true that Hausrecht gives employees the right to force me to leave the store despite the Coronaschutzverordnung clause and the Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz (Behinderung clauses)?

 

Thank for your answers!

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Is it true that Hausrecht gives employees the right to force me to leave the store despite the Coronaschutzverordnung clause and the Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz (Behinderung clauses)?

 

The stores are more concerned about their duty of care to their employees and all their other customers. Just as some restaurants will not let in customers without a shirt, these stores will not let you in without a mask. 

 

I don't see how your rights have been violated. 

 

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Einige Geschäfte bieten ihren Kund*innen inzwischen an, Waren online zu bestellen und sie an der Tür des jeweiligen Geschäfts abzuholen, ohne den Laden betreten zu müssen. Aus Sicht der Antidiskriminierungsstelle können derartige Angebote grundsätzlich eine sinnvolle Lösung sein, um den Anforderungen des Diskriminierungsschutzes auf der einen und denen des Infektionsschutzes auf der anderen Seite gerecht zu werden. Der Diskriminierungsschutz gibt insoweit keinen Anspruch darauf, uneingeschränkt im Geschäft der Wahl einkaufen gehen zu können.

 

Source: https://www.antidiskriminierungsstelle.de/DE/was-wir-machen/projekte/Corona/Mund_Nasenschutz/Mund_Nasenschutz_node.html 

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10 hours ago, engelchen said:

I don't see how your rights have been violated.

Well, that's strange because at the link you've provided it's written at the beginning:
Das Allgemeine Gleichbehandlungsgesetz (AGG) schützt in solchen Situationen aber nur Menschen, die wegen einer Behinderung keinen oder nur einen bestimmten Mund-Nasen-Schutz tragen können.


My rights are clearly violated here because it has been stated in Coronaschutzverordnung that I am exempt from wearing the masks.
 

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4 hours ago, Maaxxx said:

My rights are clearly violated here because it has been stated in Coronaschutzverordnung that I am exempt from wearing the masks.

My layman´s guess is that it depends on how you define "Behinderung" and that you need a "Schwerbehindertenausweis" in order to enjoy the privileges that come with the status "behindert".

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Maskenpflicht: Ausnahme auch bei gesundheitlichen Einschränkungen möglich

Darüber hinaus gelten in allen Bundesländern auch dann Ausnahmen von der Maskenpflicht, wenn das Tragen einer Mund-Nasen-Bedeckung aufgrund gesundheitlicher oder psychischer Einschränkungen nicht zumutbar bzw. nicht möglich ist. Das kann etwa Asthma oder anderen schweren Lungen- aber auch Herzerkrankungen gelten, bei denen die Sauerstoffversorgung bereits eingeschränkt ist. Wichtig: In aller Regel sollte die Erkrankung durch ein ärztliches Attest belegt sein, um einen entsprechenden Nachweis hierüber zu haben. Das Mitführen einer entsprechenden Bescheinigung kann Probleme bei Kontrollen verhindern. Auch für Hörgeschädigte und Gehörlose Personen gilt die Maskenpflicht mittlerweile in den meisten Bundesländern nicht (ebenso für deren Begleitpersonen, die mit ihnen kommunizieren).

 

You need to show a doctors certificate in order to be exempt. If you have one, fine. If not then wear a mask.

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2 hours ago, robinson100 said:

 

I work in retail and am sick to death of people coming into the store without a mask - some have an Attest, but most do not, and have simply "forgotten" to put a mask on! Two years of Corona virus now, and employees have to chase around after stupid people who can´t even remember to put a mask on! Don´t you think we have better things to do than approach every maskless idiot (at potential risk of catching something ourselves), and remind them?!!!

 

 

I feel I need to jump in here.  Twice recently, I've forgotten my mask. The first time, I needed to have a pair of boots repaired (rather than buy a new pair). My mind was completely focused on where I was going and the task at hand that I forgot to bring a mask with me.  Luckily, I was able to run into a chemists, with my mouth and nose covered by a scarf, and buy one.  The second time was at the petrol station. Again, focused on other things, I forgot to put a mask on and walked into the station.  Luckily, the girl behind the counter was very polite and pointed it out to me. Mortified, I ran outside and got a mask from the car.

 

What I'm trying to explain is that it can happen, especially to people who don't go to many places where masks are needed.  You work in retail and have to remember it every day, some people only go shopping once a week, or even less. It really can happen and they're not all idiots

 

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34 minutes ago, Tap said:

You work in retail and have to remember it every day, some people only go shopping once a week, or even less. It really can happen and they're not all idiots.

Sure people make occasional mistakes.  But, IIRC, @robinson100 works in a grocery store.  It’s a bit hard to understand how someone doesn’t see the sign in words and pictures upon grocery store entry, along with the fact that everyone else there is wearing a mask, in conjunction with the fact that grocery shopping is a routine part of life.  I feel her pain.

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1 hour ago, slammer said:

 

You need to show a doctors certificate in order to be exempt. If you have one, fine. If not then wear a mask.

Being exempt from having to wear a mask isn´t the same as having the right to enter a private property the owner of which doesn´t want you to. Even if the property is a business.

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In every pocket (jacket, coat, etc.) - even shopping bags, hand bags - I have a mask tucked away, just in case. I also always remember to replace them after use - it's the first thing I do after I enter my front door. It's the same with the poo bags for the dog. This way I never get caught out without them. 

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7 minutes ago, pappnase said:

This, plus in one pocket, still sealed in plastic I have an OP mask and an FFP mask which I keep for people on the tram without a mask of their own.

I've given out about 8 masks in the last 3 months whilst I've been visiting my wife in hospital.

 

You are truly a good Samaritan. 

 

7 minutes ago, pappnase said:

Most people look embarrassed or grateful when I hand them a mask, it's the assholes that get shouty who bother me.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with you.

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25 minutes ago, pappnase said:

This, plus in one pocket, still sealed in plastic I have an OP mask and an FFP mask which I keep for people on the tram without a mask of their own.

I've given out about 8 masks in the last 3 months whilst I've been visiting my wife in hospital.

Most people look embarrassed or grateful when I hand them a mask, it's the assholes that get shouty who bother me.

 

 

I've got sealed masks in a box ready at my front door for my Nachhilfeschüler should they forget theirs. So far it's only been neccessary once. 

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12 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

Did you read all the information on the website I provided? Or did you just look at small excerpts? 

Just because you think you are exempt from wearing a mask

 

Did you read my post?
I do not think that I am exempt. Where did you get it? The doctor told me that it constitutes a danger to my health and I must not wear a mask more than 10 minutes before we can arrange an OP.

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4 minutes ago, Maaxxx said:

 The doctor told me that it constitutes a danger to my health and I must not wear a mask more than 10 minutes before we can arrange an OP.

 

So, do you really think it sensible to go out and about where lots of other people are, and risk contractig Covid 19?

As far as I know, you need to be fit to be able to be operated on, so why on earth would you want to risk your health by going shopping for furniture? sorry, but furniture can be ordered online. It is not "essential", and whilst it might be a nice distraction, going to a furniture outlet to have a good old look around, surely your own health should be your  highest priority right now?

 

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