Further delay of Nordstream 2, substantially raising gas price

[scook17 247]

On 28/09/2022, 13:02:58, Jonny said:

I wonder who blew it up ? 

 

I would look to motive.

 

Russia - There is a chance that the pipeline(s) will be connected again at some future date, or with some new German government. Russia can simply turn off the gas, so no need to blow up the pipeline you spent billions financing. So IMHO, the least likely candidate.

 

Ukraine - The ability (carrot) to turn on/off the gas at the Russian end, gives considerable influence. Ukraine has been receiving billions, so not so hard to pay some mercenaries to blow up the pipeline. Not sure of the depth, but possibly you could use deep sea divers, or a sub which remotely connected charged. Maybe you even just drop some depth charges to the correct depth and wait for the gas to start coming up, so you only need a destroyer class vessel. Submarine would of course be much more discrete. So ability and motivation.

 

Poland - Publicly thanking the US for attacking the Russian/German energy infrastructure. Bordering Ukraine, so likely to be hit by the coming radioactive fallout and potentially the next target after Ukraine. Significant past history with Soviet occupation and significant support of Ukraine.  Now has it's own pipeline from Norway, so cares little about supply via Germany. So motivation. Capability is questionable, as it only has some old 1960's submarines. However, probably not the political will to risk it.

 

Baltic States - Proximity to the zone. Dislike of Russia. However, they have no submarines of their own.

 

Norway - As Denmark, Sweden and Finland have no submarines, and largely no interest I would rule them out. Norway has a competitor in Russia, but can't supply enough gas to Europe and will need to construct new pipelines. Although Norway has submarines from the 1980s/1990s, it's unlikely to have a significant reason to become involved.

 

UK - Given the anti-russian viewpoint coming from the UK PM, and the 'danger' of Germany being forced to accept Russian gas, the UK could have send a SBS or similar special forces unit to blow up the pipeline. Capability and Motivation. Honestly I could not call out what is in the mind of that woman they now put in charge. I can't see her being there by the next election, but it I would not rule out something like this from her.

 

USA - Capability and Motivation for sure. Opposed Nord stream at every opportunity with even the cheek to sanction German companies involved in the construction. The US largely fights a proxy war and anything to weaken a perceived enemy is likely worthwhile. I think Putin was quoted as saying 'American will fight to the last Ukrainian...' implying the Ukrainian regime was a pawn in such a conflict. Making it far more difficult to have German and Russia turn the pipeline back on would further US economic interests as they happen to be the largest gas exporter now at around 4x the price of the gas that previously came from Russia.

 

Unfortunately if you look to NATO, without the USA, the various EU countries military is a mess. Decades of underfunding. Even the UK aircraft carrier broke down last time it sailed out of port. So what if the US did it, what in fact would Europe do? I doubt we will ever know who actually blew this up, as it would be too much of a political hot potato.

[fraufruit 41,931]

Some decent and thoughtful speculating there skook. Greenie.

 

As you stated, we may never know.

[murphaph 9,638]

Point of order, Sweden makes some of the most advanced Subs in the world. And for the sake of completeness, surely Germany would need to be added as a possible actor. Certainly would have the capability. My money is firmly on the Russians however. Ukraine would be nuts to risk the good will of the EU like that.

[yesterday 1,979]

31 minutes ago, scook17 said:

 

and what about Germany?

 

In any case they found the German guy responsible, he was spotted coming out of the Baltic 

 

[Dembo 493]

I don't see what Germany would gain, and they could also simply switch off the pipelines from the other end. Or refuse to pay.

 

It seems everyone has been quick to rule out eco-terrorists und assume it must be a military power, but maybe it's not that impossible. Also I wonder if somebody mined the pipeline as a strategic move and something went wrong. That would explain the lack of obvious motive at the moment.

[yourkeau 7,719]

It was Russia. 

[LukeSkywalker 7,597]

It’s like Cluedo Classic: who did it, what weapon and how/where?

[Jonny 1,324]

[spleen69 22]

43 minutes ago, Jonny said:

 

Is that Murphaph? He seems to have a similar intellect to Joey.

[murphaph 9,638]

I'm chuckling at stupid cunts sharing memes made in Leningrad thinking they are oh so much cleverer than the rest of the sheeple. Dumb fuckers.

[Jonny 1,324]

Ha ha.  Anything going against the CNN narrative automatically comes from Russia.  

 

Who's the sheeple here ? Do you get your other 'facts' from Wikipedia by any chance ?

 

[murphaph 9,638]

CNN, BBC, ZDF, RTE...but sure they are all lying. It's a global conspiracy don't you know. The Jews are presumably behind it. Russia has been coordinating and financing disinformation projects in western democracies for 20 years now. They haven't (yet) had to mobilise the troll farm workers.

[spleen69 22]

30 minutes ago, murphaph said:

CNN, BBC, ZDF, RTE...but sure they are all lying. It's a global conspiracy don't you know. The Jews are presumably behind it. Russia has been coordinating and financing disinformation projects in western democracies for 20 years now. They haven't (yet) had to mobilise the troll farm workers.

 

They are the US, UK, German & IE versions of RT, ie state sponsored media.
Do you honestly believe that one side only broadcasts propaganda and the other side only broadcasts "the truth"?

Come on man, stop being so naive.

[Jonny 1,324]

4 minutes ago, spleen69 said:

 

They are the US, UK, German & IE versions of RT, ie state sponsored media.
Do you honestly believe that one side only broadcasts propaganda and the other side only broadcasts "the truth"?

Come on man, stop being so naive.

Well said.  Can't believe that people watch their state sponsored media and believe Russia = bad , the west= all good. 

Nothing is black and white. 

[Keleth 9,279]

14 minutes ago, murphaph said:

CNN, BBC, ZDF, RTE...but sure they are all lying. It's a global conspiracy don't you know. The Jews are presumably behind it. Russia has been coordinating and financing disinformation projects in western democracies for 20 years now. They haven't (yet) had to mobilise the troll farm workers.

Wait until he starts saying how it was Bill Gates,the WEF,NWO etc etc.

 

He is exactly how you know conspiracy theorists are fucking idiots.

911,Sandy Hook and many others were all according to them black flag operations.

 

Nordstrom is the perfect fit for a black flag op,Russia blow it up and blame it on USA,win win for them.

But nope it was the USA it must have been,Russia wouldn´t do such a thing because they´re a peaceful land that the USA keeps picking on and Putin is a wonderful leader.

 

[Keleth 9,279]

13 minutes ago, spleen69 said:

 

They are the US, UK, German & IE versions of RT, ie state sponsored media.
Do you honestly believe that one side only broadcasts propaganda and the other side only broadcasts "the truth"?

Come on man, stop being so naive.

I can never understand why people believe the BBC is state-funded propaganda.

For a start it´s run by an ex-Tory and as regards the State they´ve been Conservatives for the last 12 years yet we´re supposed to believe that the BBC is run by hard leftists.

 

Also just because you think those are state-run propaganda why does that mean RT, Fox and others are truthful?

 

 

 

[Keleth 9,279]

14 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Can't believe that people watch their state sponsored media and believe Russia = bad , the west= all good.

Bush and Blair should have been tried as war criminals.

Putin should also be.

 

Now explain why you think Russia (in its present incarnation) is good and Putin is right to have invaded Ukraine.

 

[spleen69 22]

4 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Also just because you think those are state-run propaganda why does that mean RT, Fox and others are truthful?

 

 

 

Who said that? RT is propaganda for sure and Fox has it's own twisted agenda, regardless of whatever the truth is.
BBC used to be the first place I checked for news but not any more.

[murphaph 9,638]

I'm not wasting my time discussing these topics with trolls who don't care either way who bombed the pipelines. They are only here to get a rise out of people. Sick cunts don't care that a war is on and at least 25 civilians have been murdered by Russia this morning. For such sick fuckers I have zero time now. Quote me all you want, I won't be replying to you assholes.

[fraufruit 41,931]

Yep, time for full-on ignore.