Only in America

[fraufruit 42,674]

It has been discussed for ages.

[AnswerToLife42 2,491]

18 hours ago, bramble said:

It's Trump's fault. 

If I remember correctly, Trump was elected in a democratic election.

So, it was the will of the voters.

[snowingagain 5,466]

Women in GB do not have the right to choose to have an abortion before 12 weeks.  It has to be signed off by 2 doctors saying continuing the pregnancy is a danger to the medical or mental health of the mother.  

[fraufruit 42,674]

9 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Women in GB do not have the right to choose to have an abortion before 12 weeks.  It has to be signed off by 2 doctors saying continuing the pregnancy is a danger to the medical or mental health of the mother.  

 

Women with money have a much better chance as it has always been.

[snowingagain 5,466]

10 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Women with money have a much better chance as it has always been.

For sure.  But you do not have to pay for this in the UK.  Finding 2 doctors to sign off that the abortion is necessary for medical/psch reasons is not difficult.  You can have it done on the NHS and then it is of course free, but the waiting time is longer and can often involve being on a ward with women who are having miscarriages and even giving birth.  So many choose to go private.  This costs about 65 GBP upwards, depending on medical or surgical, or requiring an overnight stay.

 

I just wanted to point out that women do not have a Roe v Wade type of right to an abortion in GB.  And I say GB, not UK, because NI is trickier.  They have recently updated their law, but provision is still very sketchy.

 

[Anna66 2,694]

51 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Women in GB do not have the right to choose to have an abortion before 12 weeks.  It has to be signed off by 2 doctors saying continuing the pregnancy is a danger to the medical or mental health of the mother.  

 

31 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

For sure.  But you do not have to pay for this in the UK.  Finding 2 doctors to sign off that the abortion is necessary for medical/psch reasons is not difficult.  You can have it done on the NHS and then it is of course free, but the waiting time is longer and can often involve being on a ward with women who are having miscarriages and even giving birth.  So many choose to go private.  This costs about 65 GBP upwards, depending on medical or surgical, or requiring an overnight stay.

 

I just wanted to point out that women do not have a Roe v Wade type of right to an abortion in GB.  And I say GB, not UK, because NI is trickier.  They have recently updated their law, but provision is still very sketchy.

 

 

41 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Women with money have a much better chance as it has always been.

 

So true. NHS waiting lists can be very long and some women have to go private because of this, and pay for a private abortion.

Like everything in this world.

Money Talks.

[snowingagain 5,466]

Just now, Anna66 said:

So true. NHS waiting lists can be very long and some women have to go private because of this, and pay for a private abortion.

Like everything in this world.  Money Talks.

I have not heard of anyone "having" to go private.  Meaning, the wait list was so long it would be past legal limit.  Especially now with medical option, the wait is much reduced.  Choosing to avoid a public ward, with women having miscarriages is another matter.

[keith2011 2,703]

12 hours ago, Keleth said:

I assume now that the courts have done this, they will be introducing laws for pre and post-natal healthcare for mothers,free childcare for mothers,free contraception and many other things that mothers and their child require.

Not sure if you meant this as sarcasm but the courts are there to interpret and enforce the law not make it.

Why can't the USA simply make a law allowing abortion or is it prohibited in the Bill of Rights or something.

[Keleth 9,346]

25 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Not sure if you meant this as sarcasm

It was.

25 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Why can't the USA simply make a law allowing abortion or is it prohibited in the Bill of Rights or something.

See this post...

7 hours ago, JG52 said:

 

The Senate is currently 48 Democrats, 2 Independent, 50 Republican, so the Democrats do not have a majority.  In order to pass a law, a simple majority of 51 votes in favor is required.  If the bill is mired in stalling debate (filibuster), a 3/5 majority is needed to end the debate and approve the bill, or 60 votes in favor.  The Vice President is the president of the Senate, but may vote only in the event of a tie.

 

 

[keith2011 2,703]

What about the house of representives? Are all Republicans senators anti abortion? Can't they hold a referendum or something, or is it just that the majority of people in the usa don't want legal abortion however stupid that may seem is this day and age?

[Keleth 9,346]

Just now, keith2011 said:

What about the house of representives? Are all Republicans senators anti abortion? Can't they hold a referendum or something, or is it just that the majority of people in the usa don't want legal abortion however stupid that may seem is this day and age?

Wouldn´t it be a federal law and didn´t the Supreme Court just decide that it´s up to states to decide.

Don´t know if that means anything.

[JG52 1,044]

29 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

What about the house of representives? Are all Republicans senators anti abortion? Can't they hold a referendum or something, or is it just that the majority of people in the usa don't want legal abortion however stupid that may seem is this day and age?

 

I'm not sure where to start with this, but I'll have a go at it.  To set the stage for my political leaning, I do not have any political party affiliation.  I vote for the candidate that is most aligned with my values, or as has been in the past dozen or so elections, I vote for the candidate who has the least amount of negative characteristics.  It's been a long time since I voted for a candidate as opposed to voting against a candidate.  I would love to see the 2nd Amendment repealed because it is no longer relevant.  I am disappointed in the SCOTUS for repealing Roe v. Wade and fear that this will only be the start of events to roll back the social clock in the U.S..

 

Anything that is not in the U.S. Constitution (including all of the Amendments) is left to the States (and subordinate jurisdictions) to decide.  States have their own constitutions and laws, but these cannot contradict the U.S. Constitution.

 

If enough citizens of a State were concerned about the consumption of alcohol on Sunday, the State legislature can pass a law prohibiting the sale of alcoholic beverages on Sunday because there is nothing in the U.S. Constitution to prevent this.  However, if the same legislature passed a law prohibiting newspapers from printing certain topics, this would be quickly overturned in the courts because the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides for the freedom of the press.  States are free to regulate anything that is not specifically identified in the U.S. Constitution, and it's the citizens of the State that get to vote on the referendums or at least on the elected officials who represent them.

 

In the alcoholic beverage example, if enough citizens of the State later wanted to overturn the law, they would petition their local representatives to change the law.  Failing that, the citizens could remove the representatives from office at the next election and replace them with a candidate who will act on their wishes.  The same is true for both chambers of the U.S. Congress.

 

By definition, the Republican party is conservative (content to see teenagers with AR-15 weapons and glad to see Roe v. Wade repealed) while the Democratic party is liberal (not happy with the current gun problem and sad to see Roe v. Wade repealed). However, I would never use a broad paintbrush to paint all Republicans as gun-loving anti-abortionists, any more than I would do the opposite for Democrats.  Unfortunately, party lines tend to be strict, and those who openly disagree tend to be marginalized within their party.

[murphaph 9,854]

15 hours ago, LeonG said:

I found this pic on facebook, which states already had trigger laws to ban abortions immediately upon Roe vs. Wade being overturned, which are still likely to ban it and where it's allowed.

 

My niece just posted something saying that in WA, even if you are under 18 and/or on somebody elses insurance, you have the right to an abortion there.

That's a long way to a blue state from a lot of those red and pink ones. Fuck me it's bad.

[fraufruit 42,674]

Great post, @JG52!

[fraufruit 42,674]

[BethAnnBitt 3,018]

15 hours ago, JG52 said:

I do not have any political party affiliation.  I vote for the candidate that is most aligned with my values, or as has been in the past dozen or so elections, I vote for the candidate who has the least amount of negative characteristics.  It's been a long time since I voted for a candidate as opposed to voting against a candidate.

My position exactly.

Quote

I would love to see the 2nd Amendment repealed because it is no longer relevant.  I am disappointed in the SCOTUS for repealing Roe v. Wade and fear that this will only be the start of events to roll back the social clock in the U.S.

My sentiments exactly.

Quote

I would never use a broad paintbrush to paint all Republicans as gun-loving anti-abortionists, any more than I would do the opposite for Democrats.  Unfortunately, party lines tend to be strict, and those who openly disagree tend to be marginalized within their party.

Thank you for so clearly articulating the way many of us feel.  Sad and scary times indeed.

[tor 17,530]

15 hours ago, murphaph said:

That's a long way to a blue state from a lot of those red and pink ones. Fuck me it's bad.

 

It has come to this. 

 

 

[murphaph 9,854]

On 25/06/2022, 07:53:54, LeonG said:

I found this pic on facebook, which states already had trigger laws to ban abortions immediately upon Roe vs. Wade being overturned, which are still likely to ban it and where it's allowed.

 

My niece just posted something saying that in WA, even if you are under 18 and/or on somebody elses insurance, you have the right to an abortion there.

Given the overnight closure of abortion clinics in the red states and the imminent closure in the pink states, there won't possibly be enough abortion clinic capacity in the remaining blue states to pick up the slack for all the women who are in a position to travel. There will be lots of back street abortions instead and lots of women will die painful deaths. The same goes obviously for the women who couldn't afford to travel even if there was capacity.

[Keleth 9,346]

On 25/06/2022, 21:27:12, JG52 said:

However, I would never use a broad paintbrush to paint all Republicans as gun-loving anti-abortionists, any more than I would do the opposite for Democrats.

I´ve always been like this including with the Torys, even though I can´t stand them sometimes they have a policy or a particular MP that you think that´s ok, not a bad idea etc.

However, once the Republicans chose Trump and when you really saw what sort of person he was and his policies then to me you lump them all in together. They have all taken the omerta and won´t speak out against him because they're afraid for their positions. If your position is more important to you than what you believe in then you deserve to be lumped in with the extremists.

It´s the same with the Torys now, once they voted to keep Johnson and we have seen the apparent rampant corruption then they all deserve to be lumped in together.

[tor 17,530]

On 6/25/2022, 8:16:43, keith2011 said:

What about the house of representives? Are all Republicans senators anti abortion? 

 

If they want to get re-elected they are....