einburgerung

58 posts in this topic

On 19.11.2021, 21:12:33, Fietsrad said:

Ask the Einbuergerungsbehoerde if you can apply early,before the six years or other period. I think it does not make sense, just makes more work to apply when you are not eligible.

I agree it does make sense to file an Application for Einbürgerung even before 1 day of completing 6 years.

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I was told that the conditions have to be fulfilled at the time of application. That would mean you can not apply before six or eight years have elapsed.

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In comparision with western european countries, where a foriegner can acquire /appply for Citizenship after 5 years of legal stay are France, UK, Ireland, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden,Finland - Germany will be joining the same league.

Coalition Law makers ( SPD, FDP, Gruene) have agreed to reduce the no of years of stay requirement from 8 years to 5 years and 3 years for specially integerated group from  6 years.

https://www.spd.de/fileadmin/Dokumente/Koalitionsvertrag/Koalitionsvertrag_2021-2025.pdf

 

Hope they implement earlier, before i want to apply next year with current 6 year rule :-)

 

Unbenannt.PNG

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17 hours ago, Christi Himmelfahrt said:

Hope they implement earlier, before i want to apply next year with current 6 year rule :-)

 

Don't they need the support of the opposition in the Parlament to make these changes?

If i am not mistaken, they need 2/3 majority. 

 

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58 minutes ago, TurMech said:

 

Don't they need the support of the opposition in the Parlament to make these changes?

If i am not mistaken, they need 2/3 majority. 

 

According to Bundestag, how the laws are Modified/Introduced is presented in simple way. Moreover, laws are accepted based on majority, not 2/3 majority.

https://www.bundestag.de/leichte_sprache/was_macht_der_bundestag/gesetzgebung

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These 3 Political parties should feel shame , that they want to sell to a foriegener a German Citizenship in 3 years, for one who with special integeration skills. I believe one require minimum 5-6 years to integerate in German Society, to speak a langauage some extent fluent.

It looks like, these parties want only fans to vote them next time, unfortunately worth of German Citizenship will be soon declined , i do not be surprised if other developed world demand visa for German Passport holders.

I would see, German Passport will loose its place and go down below drastically.

Even i am ok to apply after 8 years, but cannot afford to see, what i hold has a low value.

 

 

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It has to go through the Bundesrat I believe, and there the coallition don't have a majority.

 

Are they saying that you can get it in 4 years with B1 and an integration course? I couldn't see that bit anywhere.

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On 26.11.2021 19:51:54, Dembo said:

It has to go through the Bundesrat I believe, and there the coallition don't have a majority.

 

Yes, you are right. I read a little bit more, and learned that, they need 2/3 in Bundestag for the constitutional changes like lowering the election right to 16 years of age.

As for double citizenship, they need the approval in Bundesrat, where they don't currently have majority, but there are elections in 3 states (Saarland, SH-Holstein, NRW) in the first half of 2022, and if this coailition can win these elections, they will also have the majority in Bundesrat.

 

On 26.11.2021 19:51:54, Dembo said:

Are they saying that you can get it in 4 years with B1 and an integration course? I couldn't see that bit anywhere.

 

Language requirement is not mentioned anywhere yet. They only say, they will reduce the language requirement for the first generation Gastarbeiter.

 

"Wir schaffen ein modernes Staatsangehörigkeitsrecht. Dafür werden wir die Mehrfachstaatsangehörigkeit ermöglichen und den Weg zum Erwerb der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit vereinfachen. Eine Einbürgerung soll in der Regel nach fünf Jahren möglich sein, bei besonderen Integrationsleistungen nach drei Jahren." 

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Probably a few cautiously optimistic Germans in the UK now too, hoping to be able to apply for UK citizenship and retain their German. And in other third countries of course.

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On 11/28/2021, 11:42:29, murphaph said:

Probably a few cautiously optimistic Germans in the UK now too, hoping to be able to apply for UK citizenship and retain their German. And in other third countries of course.

The Germans abroad have been able to request to retain German citizenship much more easily than the other way around. Sure, there are a few who don't even bother to try for fear of failure, but most tend to apply and get to keep Germanhood.

 

On 11/26/2021, 7:28:57, Christi Himmelfahrt said:

These 3 Political parties should feel shame , that they want to sell to a foriegener a German Citizenship in 3 years, for one who with special integeration skills. I believe one require minimum 5-6 years to integerate in German Society, to speak a langauage some extent fluent.

It looks like, these parties want only fans to vote them next time, unfortunately worth of German Citizenship will be soon declined , i do not be surprised if other developed world demand visa for German Passport holders.

I would see, German Passport will loose its place and go down below drastically.

Even i am ok to apply after 8 years, but cannot afford to see, what i hold has a low value.

 

 

The US and many other countries (France, the UK) allow faster naturalizations. In the US it's 5 years of permanent residence normally, or 3 if married to a US citizen. I'm not sure the value of citizenship has diminished, and don't forget those born in the US practically get it no matter what. Again, your idea of integration is too simplistic. There are people who live here years and barely speak the language. Do we let them languish as third country nationals? I don't think so.

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5 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

There are people who live here years and barely speak the language. Do we let them languish as third country nationals? I don't think so.

 

Why not? 

 

The German educational system is designed with the expectation that parents assist their children, even if it is indirectly by correcting their German at home. Regardless of their intelligence and aptitude, the children of illiterate foreigners are at a distinct disadvantage and it is unlikely that the system will be fundamentally changed anytime soon.

 

Raising the language the requirements is probably the best carrot that the government can offer to induce more foreigners to learn sufficient German to properly integrate. 

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21 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

The Germans abroad have been able to request to retain German citizenship much more easily than the other way around. Sure, there are a few who don't even bother to try for fear of failure, but most tend to apply and get to keep Germanhood.

 

The US and many other countries (France, the UK) allow faster naturalizations. In the US it's 5 years of permanent residence normally, or 3 if married to a US citizen. I'm not sure the value of citizenship has diminished, and don't forget those born in the US practically get it no matter what. Again, your idea of integration is too simplistic. There are people who live here years and barely speak the language. Do we let them languish as third country nationals? I don't think so.

 

Hallo,

Acquiring Citizenship in US after 5 years of stay is not straight forward as you mentioned, at the most legal immigrants or potential immigrants with H1B/L1 visa holders have to first acquire, Green Card so called PR. Queue, that means waiting time is in years( some times decade) years based on country of birth. Only then one can apply for Citizenship after completion of stay of 5 years after acquiring Greencard. So it is not so cheap as these SDP/FDP/Greens have contracted to sell Germany to illegal migrants. Australia, Canda and USA takes cream layer of educated migrants from 3rd world countires, Germany takes in contrary, one who stress the social system.

It is obvious, what is happening in France, UK and Sweden due to their liberal Citizenship after 5 years stay, soon native Europeans have to seek for refugges in Mars in future, Europe become unlivable.

My opinion is 5 years ok, but 3 years with whatever measures, seems to be nonsense.

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43 minutes ago, Christi Himmelfahrt said:

It is obvious, what is happening in France, UK and Sweden due to their liberal Citizenship after 5 years stay, soon native Europeans have to seek for refugges in Mars in future, Europe become unlivable.

 

Really?. As well as a spell check, you'd clearly benefit from a reality check.

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21 hours ago, engelchen said:

Raising the language the requirements is probably the best carrot that the government can offer to induce more foreigners to learn sufficient German to properly integrate. 

 

I don't know if it works as a carrot but I think it is a resonable requirement. If you've lived here 5 years and can't manage B1 level German then that's pretty poor. I wouldn't suggest that anyone without the language skills can't keep the right to remain, but becoming a citizen is a big step beyond that that should require some kind of commitment on your part.

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

 

Huh?

Indeed. The bare minimum requirement for citizenship (and this will remain the case!) is that time spent here has been legal.

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22 hours ago, Dembo said:

 

I don't know if it works as a carrot but I think it is a resonable requirement. If you've lived here 5 years and can't manage B1 level German then that's pretty poor. I wouldn't suggest that anyone without the language skills can't keep the right to remain, but becoming a citizen is a big step beyond that that should require some kind of commitment on your part.

 

I see what you are trying to say and kind of agree but at the same time, been able to communicate and passing the B1 test is not the same.   The B1 measures not only the ability to have a conversation but as well the written part and the correct use of grammar (declinations and building sentences correctly can be a pain for people who never took classes).

 

Just like there are people who can pass B1 and not been able to have a conversation to save their lives there are people as well that speak German every day and still fail at the test.

 

If it was up to me, there should be a citizenship German test instead of the B1 and in that test making mistakes with der/die/das/den/diese/diesen/dieser/deren/etc should not have a big weight.  Zukunft Zwei should not even be in the test.

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7 hours ago, Krieg said:

If it was up to me, there should be a citizenship German test instead of the B1 and in that test making mistakes with der/die/das/den/diese/diesen/dieser/deren/etc should not have a big weight.  Zukunft Zwei should not even be in the test.

No argument here. It doesn't necessarily mean pass an exam but could mean demonstrate a reasonable level of competence in a 5 minute chat with someone, which you can skip if you have the certificate. The point is to weed out those that have made no effort. 

 

 

 

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I just ran across this site that has free placement exams for German courses. The C2.2 exam on the site has a few idioms that stumped me (despite a BA in German, learning German for 30 years, living in Germany for 16 years, passing a PNDS exam many years ago...):

 

https://www.sprachschule-aktiv-muenchen.de/en/german-test-online/

 

I got 17 out of 20 right and I was sure going into it that I would have been able to get all of them right. Not sure if the exam on the site is realistic, but I found the most advanced exam sufficiently difficult. 

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