Buying a house in Germany

76 posts in this topic

Yep, he made a bet and lost.

 

Personally (and admittedly a posteriori), I loved 2008 and 2020. In 2008 we only had two or three years worth of investments anyway and every extra cent we invested in 2008 and 2009 brought us great returns - the experience was really a wealth building cornerstone for us. The extra money we invested last year likewise. No shortcuts necessary, just patience and time.

 

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On 11/1/2021, 4:33:40, jeba said:

I had my gas heating replaced in 2017. It was nowhere near 20k. I don´t remember the exact amount but it was definitely below € 4000.-.

 

You probably only replaced the boiler.  What it is expensive (15k to 25k) is replacing the whole thing and going from one type of energy to another one, this might include as well the connection to the street distribution pipes.

 

Our house still use diesel (Heizöl) and we've been planning to change it since we bought the house 13 years ago, however the price of Heizöl has been very low lately so we are not going to pay 25k for the privilege of doubling our heating bill.   I want to save the environment but man that would be expensive.   From this year they introduced a new tax to push us the remaining ones out of the Heizöl world, but it is still much cheaper than gas.

 

 

On 11/1/2021, 9:13:30, murphaph said:

Typical German houses built in the last 50 years would not need a new roof in your lifetime.

A tiled roof is extremely durable and they are by far the most common type of roof in Germany. 

 

While this is true, you still might need to do some sort of maintenance work every 20 to 30 years.  At least painting the tiles to make them look nice again and to protect them in the long term.  Just this would be a few thousands.

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hi TTers

Does anyone know how to calculate real value of a house or property. We just saw some new houses being built in Poing and RMH (112 sq m living space and 170 sq m plot size) costs 1M+

https://www.schindler-bautraeger.de/projekte/bauvorhaben-poing-w7-lerchenwinkel.html

 

When I checked it in immoscout price predictor it tells me this price is 24% more expensive. So how do I calculate the real worth and if buying at this price is a good decision or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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well - that is a very interesting, and partially philosophical, question. What is your definition of "real" value? 

 

The market (real estate or otherwise) controls the price to a degree. "Real worth" is the price that you will realistically have to expect, given the current condition of the market. It's like the "average opinion" of people in the market about that particular item. This is what Immoscout24 can help you figure out, because they have a good statistical base of asking prices and purchase prices in Germany. If Immoscout says the price of this object is 24% higher than comparable houses in the area, then I'm thinking it might be a bit overpriced.

 

Or, if you are defining "real worth" in purely mathematical terms, the value of a piece of real estate could be calculated as today's Bodenrichtwert times square meters of land + the cost of building the house (all construction materials, public dues, labor cost), inflation adjusted from the time it was built until today. 

 

If your "real worth" is measured in terms of what you personally hope to get out of living there - I have no idea if you're getting a good deal, because what makes you jump for joy might be worth nothing to somebody else. What could easily happen, given the current "hot" market situation in certain areas, is that while you are trying to make an assessment of whether this is a "real worth" or "good deal", somebody else simply buys that house. 

 

So, me personally, when I want to buy a house, I look at a house. I walk around in it. I envision what my life would be like in it. Then, if it "clicks" (and I have the money, or can get the money) I just do it. Even if immoscout24 says the price might be on the high end.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

immoscout24

and other real estate websites that offer price estimates do so by looking at histories of sale prices for an individual property, prices in the neighborhood and price trends in the area.  Consider what is in the public record and that is the basis for their calculation.

Imagine there are two, otherwise identical homes on the market.   immoscout24 might say they should be priced at 400K because the public record for both properties is the same.  However, they are both for sale:  one is 400K and the other is 500K.  Which is the "real" price?

What  immoscout24 doesn't see is that house #2 just had a newly remodeled kitchen and bath and a new heating system.  The owner took that into consideration and priced accordingly.   immoscout24 says house #2 is more expensive than their evaluation price.

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You could ask another question. Do you want to play this game and feed the greed ?

 

Wonder where the profits are going.

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True, but the way rent is going crazy, I don't know living on rent for the remaining life is either a good idea.

 

I am now confused whether to live within city limits or move to Kreiss. Both have there own pros and cons :(

 

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By definition you only know the value of stuff IF and WHEN it get sold. 

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I read an article recently on the NYT about vendors listing their properties in the Bay Area for MUCH LESS than they realistically expect to sell it for.

Indeed, at the end these properties get sold for much more than the original meaningless asking price.

Why?

Because it's the value of stuff is not set by the buyer vendor agent notar government. It's set by the market.

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44 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

I read an article recently on the NYT about vendors listing their properties in the Bay Area for MUCH LESS than they realistically expect to sell it for.

Indeed, at the end these properties get sold for much more than the original meaningless asking price.

Why?

Because it's neither the value of stuff is not set by the buyer vendor agent notar government. It's set by the market.

On 30/10/2021, 13:57:02, LeonG said:

 

 

Yes, it's just to get the property noticed, get several bidders interested and hope a bidding war develops. Apparently, in Scotland, you have a closed bidding system - I always thought this is the fairest way to bid for a house and is a bit of a protection for people that they don't get caught up in a bidding war and overextend themselves financially.

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On 16.12.2021, 16:13:33, catjones said:

and other real estate websites that offer price estimates do so by looking at histories of sale prices for an individual property, prices in the neighborhood and price trends in the area.  Consider what is in the public record and that is the basis for their calculation.

Imagine there are two, otherwise identical homes on the market.   immoscout24 might say they should be priced at 400K because the public record for both properties is the same.  However, they are both for sale:  one is 400K and the other is 500K.  Which is the "real" price?

What  immoscout24 doesn't see is that house #2 just had a newly remodeled kitchen and bath and a new heating system.  The owner took that into consideration and priced accordingly.   immoscout24 says house #2 is more expensive than their evaluation price.

Price estimate on Immobilienscout24 is based on their data base. The actual price is not a public record. The actual prices are higher then immobilienscout24 prices.

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On 12/16/2021, 4:13:33, catjones said:

and other real estate websites that offer price estimates do so by looking at histories of sale prices l

Nonsense.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sale prices are not actually public knowledge.

 

And even if they were, there are of course the unknown. Opened a new posh restaurant next corner? Or a spike in crime in the street? Or did they close the Kita at walking distance? Or last year installed the best ever kitchen?

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11 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Nonsense.

Correct me if I'm wrong but sale prices are not actually public knowledge.

 

If that were true, there would be no news articles in DL claiming "XXXXX millions of euros in real estate were sold last year." because no one would know.  Click link.

https://www.iamexpat.de/housing/real-estate-news/house-prices-germany-rose-record-12-2-percent-end-2021

 

If the RE sale transaction is recorded somewhere in any government, I would bet that data can be gleaned.  In the US, RE sale transactions are recorded for tax purposes so you know the exact price paid for a property as well as its sales and tax history.  

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From what I can glean from the various Immo portals which claim to show actual values in their 'price atlases', these are still only prices culled from advertised asking prices over the years, not actual sold prices.

E.g. from Homeday;

"So erhebt Homeday seine Daten:

Für seinen Preisatlas erhebt Homeday die Angebotsdaten aus über 300 verschiedenen Internetportalen sowie Tages- und Wochenzeitungen. Die Daten reichen bis zu fünf Jahre zurück und werden laufend aktualisiert."

 

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Actual sales prices aren´t publicly available, at least not in Bavaria,  but there is a "Gutachterausschuss" which collects them. However, they will not give it to you unless you have a very convincing reason (and even then I´m not sure whether they will).

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

Actual sales prices aren´t publicly available, at least not in Bavaria,  but there is a "Gutachterausschuss" which collects them. However, they will not give it to you unless you have a very convincing reason (and even then I´m not sure whether they will).

That's the way I knew it.

Of course they are known to some Amt, whatever. Not to average Joe.

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