Backdating an S1 healthcare form

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Hello

After several years of fighting, the UK finally agreed that I am eligible for healthcare through an S1 since 2018 and issued a backdated form (back to 2018).

 

My Krankenkasse (TK) has refused to accept this, saying I need one with a “from 2021” date as until that timepoint I was technically “Rentenantragstellerin” in Germany. This means I have been paying Beiträge to TK (on my Uk-exportable benefit) while being eligible for UK-funded healthcare. I do not receive any pension from Germany (the DRV initially denied my application on false grounds, then admitted through a court case they were incorrect, only to find an EU rule that stated the uk was fully responsible for me - this took almost 3 years in Germany and is ongoing in the UK). 
 

Are TK correct or should they be accepting the backdated S1 and refunding my Beiträge?
 

Many thanks! 

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Would the UK not be responsible for your costs as it was them that made the error? It doesn't sound like the Germans are responsible for you.

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1 hour ago, Kleine Maus said:

Hello

After several years of fighting, the UK finally agreed that I am eligible for healthcare through an S1 since 2018 and issued a backdated form (back to 2018).

 

My Krankenkasse (TK) has refused to accept this, saying I need one with a “from 2021” date as until that timepoint I was technically “Rentenantragstellerin” in Germany. This means I have been paying Beiträge to TK (on my Uk-exportable benefit) while being eligible for UK-funded healthcare. I do not receive any pension from Germany (the DRV initially denied my application on false grounds, then admitted through a court case they were incorrect, only to find an EU rule that stated the uk was fully responsible for me - this took almost 3 years in Germany and is ongoing in the UK). 
 

Are TK correct or should they be accepting the backdated S1 and refunding my Beiträge?
 

Many thanks! 

 

 

Are TK saying the UK are not refunding the Beitrage you have already paid? My understanding is that the German insurer really acts like a letter box, and the payments are made by the NHS, if you qualify for the S1 form.  

If you are not qualifying on the basis of any German pension, the S1 rule normally kicks in when you reach the UK pension age. If you retired early, they won't fund you, so it may depend on when you retired.     

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It’s an Erwerbsminderungsrente ie on disability grounds so I’ve not reached pension age.
 

the german pension system (DRV) and Uk (DWP) have both made mistakes. 
 

TK are saying they can’t accept a form with a backdated date (2018) only from the date the court case in Germany ceased (2021) leaving a 2.5 year “gap”.

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Maybe try to get the UK DWP to refund you the premiums as their error seems to be the root cause of the problem? Failing that I think you'll be heading back to court :-(

 

 

 

 

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Thanks….. ok we will see what is possible….. had hoped something would be possible within Germany rather than dragging the UK side into it which tends to just muddy waters (and it was technically the German pension authority DRV who made the first error).

 

 

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You could ask DVKA (Deutsche Verbindungsstelle Krankenversicherung Ausland), which is the top central institution for all public health insurers for international matters, to look at your case.

For a list of their duties, please click on the tab "tasks" in here: https://www-dvka-de.translate.goog/de/die_dvka/wir_ueber_uns/wir_ueber_uns.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

Contact details: https://www.dvka.de/de/die_dvka/so_erreichen_sie_uns/so_erreichen_sie_uns.html

 

Their ruling will be binding for Techniker Krankenkasse (TK).

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If the DWP have admitted that they made an error in not awarding you payments from 2018, I wonder what's stopping them refunding you directly,  even if TK are unable to backdate according to their rules. 

 

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Thank you. The DVKA link looks great and we will ask them for help as well as putting in a complaint with the DWP.

 

Thank you very much

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A question.  I have not worked in DE.   Over 60 now.  Would like to work, but  what happens about insurance contributions when husband retires?  Would his contributions be reduced, if mine were paid by the NHS? He is insured through TK though he could get private because his income is (at the mo) over the threshold.

 

When I was a single mother in London in 1995, I had 5 pounds a week after paying for childcare.  Kind of want to avoid that trap.  I would love to work, but it would be low paid stuff.  Need to know if volunteer stuff would make more sense.

 

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No, his own insurance contributions are always the same, no matter:

  • whether you get free cover under his policy through family insurance because your own monthly worldwide income is under 1/7 * Bezugsgröße = 1/7 * 3.290€ = 470€ (in 2021 and in 2022), or
  • whether you get your own cover paid by the NHS.

 

22 hours ago, snowingagain said:

He is insured through TK though he could get private because his income is (at the mo) over the threshold.

That would be a bad idea, since there is no free family insurance in private health insurance and also because private health insurance gets prohibitively expensive the older you get, please read:

If you gather more than 60 German pension months, you will get a minuscule German pension, but that would be a bad thing for you, since you would then have to pay German public health&nursing insurance contributions on all your worldwide pensions.

Better to get health insurance for free through the NHS picking up the tab by issuing you an S1 form once you reach pension age.

 

If you raised children in Germany for the first 3 years of their life (and you were not an exception like, for example, only in Germany because of being attached to foreign armed forces) it may already be too late, i.e.  you may have already gathered these 60 months (= 5 contribution years), since mothers get 2.5 years of assumed pension contributions at the average salary, per child born before 1992 and 3 contribution years per child born in 1993 or later: https://www-ihre--vorsorge-de.translate.goog/rente/gesetzliche-rente/muetterrente-mehr-entgeltpunkte-pro-kind.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui

 

Please also read up on what I have written on the KVdR (Krankenversicherung der Rentner): https://www.google.com/search?q=KVdR+PandaMunich+site%3Atoytowngermany.com

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We are in the middle of this thinking right now. 

 

Other half finishes at the end of Dec and will have 8.5 years to go until he gets his state pension and S1 coverage from the UK.

 

Does he find a job and therefore end up with a German pension and no S1, or go for a minijob which doesn't attract German pension and pay his KK beiträge himself, we could presumably both get a minijob. We would quite like to pay German taxes (therefore more than a minijob) - this country has done right by us, educated our 4 kids and given 5 of us citizenship and that would be fitting (although they are getting one of our kids in their Army, so we are not just freeloading), but we don't feel quite the same about KK - if we need to, all well and good, but not necessarily financially the best plan. 

 

Don't know, really.

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17 hours ago, kiplette said:

Other half finishes at the end of Dec and will have 8.5 years to go until he gets his state pension and S1 coverage from the UK.

 

Does he find a job and therefore end up with a German pension and no S1, or go for a minijob which doesn't attract German pension and pay his KK beiträge himself, we could presumably both get a minijob. 

Three points to consider:

  1. he would be a voluntary member and would therefore have to pay public health insurance contributions on his total worldwide income, even on income that isn't taxable in Germany, which you probably have, since you can't survive on two mini jobs. The contribution base in voluntary public health insurance is much larger than if he just gets employment at up to the Versicherungspflichtgrenze of 64,350€ per year and therefore becomes a mandatory member (in employment, they only charge on his salary). Please see here for the list of income types on which your Krankenkasse will charge a contribution, if he becomes a voluntary member: https://www.gkv-spitzenverband.de/media/dokumente/krankenversicherung_1/grundprinzipien_1/finanzierung/beitragsbemessung/2020-03-20_Einnahmekatalog_240SGBV_final.pdf
  2. He would only get a German public pension after he has gathered at least 60 pension months. People who at the time they reach pension age have collected up to 59 pension months, get offered to either pay in the missing months and get a pension or they get their half of the public pension contribution reimbursed (the employer's part is "lost") and don't get a German public pension. So if he would stop his employment after maximum 59 months, he can still avoid getting a German public pension. Of course, that's the situation now, we will have several governments until he reaches pension age, so this may change until then, just as a caveat.
  3. All mini jobs now come with the default that you pay into public pension insurance, so you would have to explicitly opt out of paying German public pension insurance for the mini job to avoid that, which is possible, but it's an extra step. By the way, it is rumoured that the mini job limit will be raised from 450€ to 520€: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/deutschland-welt/mindestlohn-und-minijobs-darueber-verhandeln-spd-fdp-und-gruene,SmktggW
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Thanks Panda, that's food for thought.

 

60 months is ages. It is therefore not an immediate problem. That is super helpful. Not that I have not read that information previously, but I think in my head those were weeks and not months. 

 

Citipost here we come!

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Hi @Kleine Maus I am not sure how much it helps you, but I moved to German in Sep 2020 as a Posted Worker, but it took months for my S1 to finally get sorted. My wife spoke to TK and they suggested we back claim for all the medical bills we'd paid (3 kids!) over the months before. Different situation, but it seems they are at least open to the concept! Good luck!

 

On 25/10/2021, 15:16:33, Kleine Maus said:

Hello

After several years of fighting, the UK finally agreed that I am eligible for healthcare through an S1 since 2018 and issued a backdated form (back to 2018).

 

My Krankenkasse (TK) has refused to accept this, saying I need one with a “from 2021” date as until that timepoint I was technically “Rentenantragstellerin” in Germany. This means I have been paying Beiträge to TK (on my Uk-exportable benefit) while being eligible for UK-funded healthcare. I do not receive any pension from Germany (the DRV initially denied my application on false grounds, then admitted through a court case they were incorrect, only to find an EU rule that stated the uk was fully responsible for me - this took almost 3 years in Germany and is ongoing in the UK). 
 

Are TK correct or should they be accepting the backdated S1 and refunding my Beiträge?
 

Many thanks! 

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