3G in Restaurants?

3,552 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, kiplette said:

It seems like a complete no-brainer.

 

@Jonny I repeat:


Seriously, why should someone not get a vaccine?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding vaccination of children, a group of doctors / scientists come to the view:

 

"RESOLVED, THAT HEALTHY CHILDREN SHALL NOT BE SUBJECT TO FORCED VACCINATION (view supporting evidence)

  • Negligible clinical risks from SARS-CoV-2 infection exist for healthy children under eighteen.
  • Long term safety of the current COVID vaccines in children cannot be determined prior to instituting such policies. Without high-powered, reproducible, long term safety data, risks to the long-term health status of children remain too high to support use in healthy children.
  • Children risk severe, adverse events from receiving the vaccine. Permanent physical damage to the brain, heart, immune and reproductive system associated with SARS-CoV-2 spike protein-based genetic vaccines has been demonstrated in children.
  • Healthy, unvaccinated children are critical to achieving herd immunity. Natural immunity is proven to tolerate infection, benefiting community protection while there is insufficient data to assess whether Covid vaccines assist herd immunity."

source (includes names of some who signed):

https://doctorsandscientistsdeclaration.org/

 

their supporting evidence:

https://doctorsandscientistsdeclaration.org/home/supporting-evidence/#children

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, theGman said:

Seriously, why should someone not get a vaccine?

There are some potential scenarios under which I wouldn´t want to get vaccinated. E.g. if I was pregnant or had developed serious side effects after the first dose or knew that I was at risk of developing e.g. zoster and my circumstances would allow me to avoid the virus (e.g. if you´re living in the middle of nowhere with hardly any social contacts).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Oh good lord. Stop talking to him.

 

Jonny is not a troll. He is just someone who is reading parts of the internet that most of us disregard. And he is not alone, clearly. This forum is read by way more people than actually post, or even have accounts. I think it's important to rebut the claims being made.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, jeba said:

There are some potential scenarios under which I wouldn´t want to get vaccinated. E.g. if I was pregnant or had developed serious side effects after the first dose or knew that I was at risk of developing e.g. zoster and my circumstances would allow me to avoid the virus (e.g. if you´re living in the middle of nowhere with hardly any social contacts).

 

Sure, I already said that there exists a minority for whom vaccination may not be an option. But that is not what we are discussing here. Infact, it's this kind of stuff which anti-vaxxers cling to (see Prof. Vulture above) as an argument for nobody to get vaccinated. So instead of leaving just 1% of the population unvaccinated, we have 17% of the adult population unvaccinated.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, theGman said:

 

Sure, I already said that there exists a minority for whom vaccination may not be an option. But that is not what we are discussing here. Infact, it's this kind of stuff which anti-vaxxers cling to (see Prof. Vulture above) as an argument for nobody to get vaccinated. So instead of leaving just 1% of the population unvaccinated, we have 17% of the adult population unvaccinated.

 

To be fair, they seem to be highly allergic to facts. I'm sure they'll find some quack doctor who will be more than willing to confirm this in writing for a fee.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

Sure, I already said that there exists a minority for whom vaccination may not be an option. But that is not what we are discussing here. Infact, it's this kind of stuff which anti-vaxxers cling to (see Prof. Vulture above) as an argument for nobody to get vaccinated. So instead of leaving just 1% of the population unvaccinated, we have 17% of the adult population unvaccinated.

 

You seem to be saying I am arguing for nobody to get vaccinated. That's not my position at all.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We know, everyone should get vaccinated but you. Because you're a special snowflake.

 

Economists call this the "free rider" problem.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, vulturesquadron said:

 

You seem to be saying I am arguing for nobody to get vaccinated. That's not my position at all.

 

So what is your position? I've asked Jonny multiple times but he won't answer.

 

And no, "just asking questions" is not an answer. The RKI make their position clear. What is your position?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VS did write his position at length 10 pages back, 

 

On 10/01/2022, 13:48:32, vulturesquadron said:

Seeing as you’ve asked, let me give it a go.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vulturesquadron said:

You seem to be saying I am arguing for nobody to get vaccinated. That's not my position at all.

That's what AfD said. "We are not against immigrants, we are against uncontrolled migration. 

 

All bullshit: you start with this, you end up with pogroms. 

 

A doctor in Bavaria gets death threats for vaccinating children. 

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/neu-ulmer-arzt-impft-kinder-und-bekommt-morddrohungen,ScNoA7w

 

Doctor under police protection for vaccinating:

https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/niedersachsen/osnabrueck_emsland/Morddrohungen-Hausarzt-aus-Wallenhorst-unter-Polizeischutz,wallenhorst384.html

 

When AfD says "we are not going to build concentration camps for migrants" you understand this is what they would like to do. When an anti-vaxxer says "I have no problem with people vaccinating themselves" you know this is what he has a problem with. He will ban vaccines and put vaccinated people in jail. When he gets to power. Before that he moans about "regime" and "Nazis".

 

Forget about it. Y'll end up like those Capitol storming clowns. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I already posted the numbers of unvaccinated and vaccinated people in ICU for NYC and Seattle, now the numbers are in for Germany (article is in German):

 

 

https://www.welt.de/wissenschaft/article236220408/DIVI-Ungeimpfte-machen-Mehrheit-aller-Corona-Faelle-auf-Intensivstationen-aus.htm

 

Fast zwei Drittel (62 Prozent, 5521 Fälle) aller Covid-19-Neuaufnahmen mit bekanntem Impfstatus waren demnach ungeimpft.

 

Rund 9,6 Prozent (856 Fälle) wiesen einen unvollständigen Immunschutz auf (Genesen ohne Impfung bzw. Teil-Immunisierung). Über ein Viertel der aufgenommenen Covid-19-Intensivpatienten (28,4 Prozent, 2535 Fälle) hatte einen vollständigen Impfschutz (Grundimmunisierung oder Booster), der Anteil mit Boosterimpfung lag dabei bei ca. 5,8 Prozent (520 Fälle).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kiplette said:

VS did write his position at length 10 pages back, 

 

Good find Kiplette!

 

So, amongst that absolute wall, there is this:

 

On 10/01/2022, 13:48:32, vulturesquadron said:

Firstly just to be clear regarding the vaccines, I don’t have an issue with someone taking them. Mandatory vaccination is a total no-go though. I do not deny that the vaccines have utility, it’s just that there are a number of problems with them.

Also, kids getting the vaccine… well all I can say is that I would not do go that route. Healthy children are at virtually no risk from COVID. Even if in the best case scenario risk of vaccine adverse events are also very low (we don’t really have a full picture), “first, do no harm”.

 

Which still leaves me a bit confused. Firstly, there is no impfpflicht. Secondly, does VS think that adults should get vaccinated or not? If not, then there is a position, and the statement of "there are a number of problems with them" can be rebutted. If yes, then why all the BS?

 

Kids. It's a fair point. It's a position. It can be rebutted.

 

The major problem I have is with the JAQing off. Muddying the waters. Like I said, lots of people read these threads. Some people are nervous about things like vaccines (when they don't need to be) and this style of throwing out all sorts of links and quotes and videos without context blocks any kind of true discourse from happening. It blocks any chance of being able to reassure people with real world facts, figures and arguments.

 

I wish people could just say, "I think we should be doing x because of evidence y". Then we can have a discussion. But it's not, it's just a regurgitating of nonsense.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now