3G in Restaurants?

3,584 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

It was obvious he was talking about been admitted to the hospital for Covid related reasons ... mate.

 

I don't have to tell my vaccination status to my urologist either.

 

I don't see the similarity - do you stay in hospital for multiple nights when you see your urologist?


Is the treatment for Covid different if you are vaccinated or unvaccinated?
Or is this just a stats thing?


 

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23 minutes ago, Krieg said:

It was obvious he was talking about been admitted to the hospital for Covid related reasons ... mate.

Was not obvious to me. I find it shocking that a hospital would not know the COVID vaccination status of each and every patient housed there.  But my husband (fully vaccinated) had the same experience in mid-October with elective surgery, only a negative test was required.  I asked him "do you know if your Zimmerpartner is vaccinated?". His response was "Since most people his age are, I am assuming he is.". Were immunocompromised patients sleeping in rooms with unvaccinated patients?  The protocol didn't make sense to me.  Hopefully it's changed since then. 

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Interesting figures from the UK:

 

UK-KW52.jpg.690240c0266dd9e15e4b9d0b2da3

 

Case rates in the vaccinated (per 100k) on average roughly double of that in the unvaccinated. I suspect we would see the same thing here if the vaccinated were being tested as frequently as the unvaccinated.

Hospitalisation and death rates (per 100k) as expected are both on average roughly 5x higher in the unvaccinated, however not the 20x or 60x being bandied about.

Worryingly, the under 18s have a higher death rate (per 100k) amongst the vaccinated.

 

 

Actual numbers of the hospitalisations look a little different: Here, roughly 40% of the admissions are unvaccinated.

 

UK-KW52-1.jpg.9859ffd60177921187607363ec

 

Deaths: Roughly 25% of all deaths are unvaccinated. The rest are either partially or fully vaccinated.

UK-KW52-2.jpg.74193b1ea8b2564c2fcbb518a1

 

All of the hospitalisation and death numbers obviously include people being hospitalised or dying from other causes but after a positive test.

 

Link to the file

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13 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

Was not obvious to me. I find it shocking that a hospital would not know the COVID vaccination status of each and every patient housed there.  But my husband (fully vaccinated) had the same experience in mid-October with elective surgery, only a negative test was required.  I asked him "do you know if your Zimmerpartner is vaccinated?". His response was "Since most people his age are, I am assuming he is.". Were immunocompromised patients sleeping in rooms with unvaccinated patients?  The protocol didn't make sense to me.  Hopefully it's changed since then. 

 

Surely everyone having to present a negative PCR test is the only thing that matters?

I'm pretty certain not all of the staff would have been vaccinated either.

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32 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

Interesting figures from the UK:

 

...

 

Your interpretation is terrible and amateurish. It even says why your interpretation is amateurish in the footnotes:

 

Quote

In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and
deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective.
This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease. Individuals in risk groups may
also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-COVID-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with COVID-19 rather than because of COVID-19.

 

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Just now, theGman said:

 

Your interpretation is terrible and amateurish. It even says why your interpretation is amateurish in the footnotes:

 

 

I didn't give an interpretation you numpty, except to say it was interesting.

 

The only conclusion I can draw from it at all is that reports of "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and "90% of patients in hospital are unvaccinated" are clearly not true.

 

Or do you draw a different conclusion from it?

 

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

It was obvious he was talking about been admitted to the hospital for Covid related reasons ... mate.

 

 

Actually I wasn't, since my wife was asked I assumed everyone was, but i guess it's hospital and/or state specific, but if it's right that you don't have to tell doctors you interact with then I retract my reply to @yourkeau and agree that he is correct on that point.

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1 minute ago, theGman said:

 

Your interpretation is terrible and amateurish. It even says why your interpretation is amateurish in the footnotes:

 

 

 

Those figures actually prove that vaccination works.  75% of the population account for less than half of the positive casesand the same in hospitalisations where the unvaccinated account for more than half of the patients presented.

A third of the cases are estimated to be incidental cases of covid in the UK

 

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12 minutes ago, bennetn said:

 

Those figures actually prove that vaccination works.  75% of the population account for less than half of the positive cases and the same in hospitalisations where the unvaccinated account for more than half of the patients presented.

A third of the cases are estimated to be incidental cases of covid in the UK

 


2/3rds of positive cases.

 

Sorry, that's not quite right - it's actually 71.5% of positive cases were vaccinated (1,827,454 out of 2,556,580).
549,062 unvaccinated (21.5%).

180,064 unknown status (7%).

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50 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

Surely everyone having to present a negative PCR test is the only thing that matters?

I'm pretty certain not all of the staff would have been vaccinated either.

I strongly disagree, despite the fact that I think data privacy is very important.  A hospital should know the COVID vaccination status of every single person on the premises, just as the nursing home up the street from me does.  It can help with statistics about transmissibility.  BTW I was showing my proof of vaccination to visit.  If you look back at my posts at that time you will see that I questioned why i did not have to present a negative test as well.  

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3 minutes ago, BethAnnBitt said:

I strongly disagree, despite the fact that I think data privacy is very important.  A hospital should know the COVID vaccination status of every single person on the premises, just as the nursing home up the street from me does.  It can help with statistics about transmissibility.  BTW I was showing my proof of vaccination to visit.  If you look back at my posts at that time you will see that I questioned why i did not have to present a negative test as well.  

 

In an ideal world I would agree with you, as we would have a vaccine that stops infection and transmission a lot more effectively than the ones we have now do.

As it is, relying on a person's vaccination status to stop infection and transmission rather than a negative test (2G) is absolute madness.

2G+ at least has some merit.

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Quote

 

The companies continue to advance the development of a variant-specific vaccine for Omicron and expect to have it available by March in the event that an adaption is needed to further increase the level and duration of protection – with no change expected to the companies’ four billion dose capacity for 2022


 

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant

 

In March you will say that Pfizer did not do enough clinical trials, and enough for you will be 1 year at least, then Omicron will become irrelevant and you will say again there is no vaccine. 

 

Natural immunity, 30 years life expectancy, after all why humans should live longer. Correct?

 

 

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1 minute ago, yourkeau said:

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant

 

In March you will say that Pfizer did not do enough clinical trials, and enough for you will be 1 year at least, then Omicron will become irrelevant and you will say again there is no vaccine. 

 

Natural immunity, 30 years life expectancy, after all why humans should live longer. Correct?

 

 

 

Well, heaven forbid public safety gets in the way of the profit train.

 

I don't understand any of your last line of gibberish.

 

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Ugh just tested positive. How long is the quarantine? What do I do now? I got a certificate from the health department emailed to me. Do I have to call them?

 

I know exactly where I got it because I only went out once last week. It was at a restaurant near Marienplatz and incidentally there was also a stupid protest going on. All those idiots that think for them selfs…

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2 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

Ugh just tested positive. How long is the quarantine? What do I do now? I got a certificate from the health department emailed to me. Do I have to call them?

 

I know exactly where I got it because I only went out once last week. It was at a restaurant near Marienplatz and incidentally there was also a stupid protest going on. All those idiots that think for them selfs…

 

You are much more likely to have caught it in the restaurant, sat inside amongst people who hadn't been tested.

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31 minutes ago, Eric7 said:

 

Well, heaven forbid public safety gets in the way of the profit train.

 

I don't understand any of your last line of gibberish.

 

Do you want Communism instead? There are no anti-vaxxers there. You just get called to be vaccinated, and no one even asks if you want it or not. This was life in the Soviet Union. There were no pharma companies. 

 

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9 minutes ago, klingklang77 said:

Ugh just tested positive.

 

Oh no. sorry to hear that. I have no useful information for you but I hope you don't get sick.

 

Best wishes.

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4 hours ago, AlexTr said:

I guess we've avoided asking the question for long enough. Most of us agree that vaccination, testing, keeping distance, hand washing, and decreasing unnecessary social contact with others are the critical components of getting us out of this pandemic, and the government of Germany agrees. Further, it is supported by evidence-based, peer-reviewed science.

 

This is our positive statement of what can and should be done.

 

Do the anti-covid vaccination people have any positive statement of what can and should be done and can they support it with evidence-based, peer-reviewed science? 

 

Pro-tip: "This YouTube video" is not the beginning, middle, or end of a good answer.

 

Seeing as you’ve asked, let me give it a go.

 

Firstly just to be clear regarding the vaccines, I don’t have an issue with someone taking them. Mandatory vaccination is a total no-go though. I do not deny that the vaccines have utility, it’s just that there are a number of problems with them.

Also, kids getting the vaccine… well all I can say is that I would not do go that route. Healthy children are at virtually no risk from COVID. Even if in the best case scenario risk of vaccine adverse events are also very low (we don’t really have a full picture), “first, do no harm”.

 

Hand washing - of course.

Self isolating when you have a positive test, or symptoms - yes.

Decreasing unnecessary social contact with others - yes.

Testing - yes, with the understanding that it's not perfect.

Social distancing - fine, in theory at least. In practice people do not really enact this in many cases, and it is not realistic to expect them to. But as a general principle, yes.

Masking - little or no effect, so I would leave it up to individuals, not mandate it. Forcing kids to wear masks in school/Kita - no way, as kids are at low risk from Covid themsleves, do not spread as much as adults, and masks do not work. Most of all though, it is cruel to children, so no.

 

Lockdowns: understandable at first when the severity of COVID was unknown, but overall seem to do more harm than good. A full draconian lockdown like in China is effective in containing spread (at least short) but that is too much, and anyway Germany is not capable of doing it, especially not at this stage.

Targeted protection of vulnerable groups - yes.

 

What else? 

Something that is totally neglected as far as I can tell is prophylactic and early treatment. Now, I don’t expect those who refer to Ivermectin as horse paste/dewormer to change their mind on it, but there are other elements (details in the early treatment thread) that I think are less controversial, including:

  • vitamin d: those hospitalised with Covid overwhelmingly do not have sufficient levels, cheap, safe, ensue you have sufficient levels so that your immune system is ready in case of infection

  • Vitamin c: take supplement as soon as symptoms arise, safe, cheap

  • Zinc: take supplement as soon as symptoms arise, take together with quercetin, safe, cheap

  • Mouth / nasal wash (e.g. povidone iodine): rinse as soon as symptoms arise circa 4 times per day, safe, cheap, reduces viral load.

Currently the guidance if you get covid is: self-isolate, wash hands, open windows, rest, eat healthily/drink water. All fine advice, but does not go far enough. 

Just to emphasise, prophylactic/early treatment is something that can benefit both vaccinated and unvaccinated!

 

That’s an outline (and with no references I’m afraid!). I’m not a doctor/immunologist/vaccinologist/epademiologist etc., just someone who is interested in what’s going on. I totally accept I may have everything wrong! 

There are so many factors to COVID and the response to it, the situation is so complex, it is difficult to weigh the various risks of one course of action over another. Furthermore, the situation is evolving and new data is emerging constantly, e.g. if omicron is less severe as it seems benefit of vaccines is lowered vs. risk of adverse events, will boosters drive total escape of immunity provided by the leaky vaccines?, etc.

So, I for one do not claim certainty on the best course of action! Hence re vaccination, I do not say to people they should not do it, just that they should inform themselves and make up their own mind.

 

One final point, the government/media have created a false dichotomy re vaccination, with the effect of dividing the vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated. This is very convenient for the government, as it focuses criticism on the unvaccinated and takes the heat off their own mistakes. In another context this would be derided as demagoguery! 

I know covid is a very sensitive topic for some people, and this is understandable. 

Personally, I hope people move away from a divisive way of looking at things, and have more empathy for others, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

 

(note: yes a lot to debate, but unforunately I do not have much time currently so may not reply further)

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