3G in Restaurants?

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22 minutes ago, Anna66 said:

 

My opinion is that you don't want to be vaccinated against Covid. That's absolutely fine. It is your free choice not too. There is no forced vaccination program, nor will there be. We live in a society with free speech. You can share your views and opinions as you like.

 

We accept the fact that some people do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid, we choose to be vaccinated. What I find annoying is that some people (and I say some because not all, I have friends who are also not vaccinated) force their opinion on other people against the Covid vaccination and try to change their opinion to be against the vaccination using whatever means necessary. Basically forcing it down their throats. Just as noone wants to force their opinion onto you or make you get vaccinated we would appreciate the same in return. Do not force us, to change our opinion on getting vaccinated against covid but using insults, such as calling us morons, telling us to wake up, posting scare tactics etc.. We would really appreciate that.

 

I respect your opinion, I respect you do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid. Your body your choice. So please kindly respect my choice to be vaccinated against Covid.

 

Thank you, and kind regards.

 

Well said!

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Exactly what Anna66 said. I have no issues with my unvaccinated friends at all, as they don't try to engage me in discussions about Russel Brand :lol:

It was a bit annoying when we couldn't go out to the cinema etc. And I was a bit worried about giving them Covid! But we simply let one another be.

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4 hours ago, Anna66 said:

 

My opinion is that you don't want to be vaccinated against Covid. That's absolutely fine. It is your free choice not too. There is no forced vaccination program, nor will there be. We live in a society with free speech. You can share your views and opinions as you like.

 

We accept the fact that some people do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid, we choose to be vaccinated. What I find annoying is that some people (and I say some because not all, I have friends who are also not vaccinated) force their opinion on other people against the Covid vaccination and try to change their opinion to be against the vaccination using whatever means necessary. Basically forcing it down their throats. Just as noone wants to force their opinion onto you or make you get vaccinated we would appreciate the same in return. Do not force us, to change our opinion on getting vaccinated against covid but using insults, such as calling us morons, telling us to wake up, posting scare tactics etc.. We would really appreciate that.

 

I respect your opinion, I respect you do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid. Your body your choice. So please kindly respect my choice to be vaccinated against Covid.

 

Thank you, and kind regards.

 

 

Ok.

Fair enough.

I don't try to keep in any way to get the vaxx or not to get it.

If you want to have 5-6-7 or 10 vaxx, then go for it.

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4 hours ago, Anna66 said:

 

My opinion is that you don't want to be vaccinated against Covid. That's absolutely fine. It is your free choice not too. There is no forced vaccination program, nor will there be. We live in a society with free speech. You can share your views and opinions as you like.

 

We accept the fact that some people do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid, we choose to be vaccinated. What I find annoying is that some people (and I say some because not all, I have friends who are also not vaccinated) force their opinion on other people against the Covid vaccination and try to change their opinion to be against the vaccination using whatever means necessary. Basically forcing it down their throats. Just as noone wants to force their opinion onto you or make you get vaccinated we would appreciate the same in return. Do not force us, to change our opinion on getting vaccinated against covid but using insults, such as calling us morons, telling us to wake up, posting scare tactics etc.. We would really appreciate that.

 

I respect your opinion, I respect you do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid. Your body your choice. So please kindly respect my choice to be vaccinated against Covid.

 

Thank you, and kind regards.

But there is forced vaccination for the military and a few other sectors of employment and they have no choice if they want to remain in employment in their current field.

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7 minutes ago, paulyg said:

But there is forced vaccination for the military and a few other sectors of employment and they have no choice if they want to remain in employment in their current field.

 

 

Kudos to you.

 

"We don't force nobody but also we don't give a fuck about those who are forced to get a vaxx"

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18 hours ago, Anna66 said:

 

My opinion is that you don't want to be vaccinated against Covid. That's absolutely fine. It is your free choice not too. There is no forced vaccination program, nor will there be. We live in a society with free speech. You can share your views and opinions as you like.

 

We accept the fact that some people do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid, we choose to be vaccinated. What I find annoying is that some people (and I say some because not all, I have friends who are also not vaccinated) force their opinion on other people against the Covid vaccination and try to change their opinion to be against the vaccination using whatever means necessary. Basically forcing it down their throats. Just as noone wants to force their opinion onto you or make you get vaccinated we would appreciate the same in return. Do not force us, to change our opinion on getting vaccinated against covid but using insults, such as calling us morons, telling us to wake up, posting scare tactics etc.. We would really appreciate that.

 

I respect your opinion, I respect you do not wish to be vaccinated against Covid. Your body your choice. So please kindly respect my choice to be vaccinated against Covid.

 

Thank you, and kind regards.

 

Liberal sentiments but that is not how it works.

Allowing individuals not to be vaccinated is why children are still suffering disability and death from Measles and pregnant women still fear Rubella, it is also why Polio, which cripples and kills, has still not been entirely eliminated in the world despite safe and effective vaccines being available against those diseases. Widespread mandatory vaccination is why Smallpox has been eradicated but @Mr.Bear and his cronies would have us believe that vaccination refusal by an individual or an individuals children is a fundamental freedom, it is not, the benefits to society as a whole in cases of public health and disease control will and should always outweigh the illogical paranoia of a few and their opinions for which I have no respect and zero tolerance.

It is very clear that the attempt to bring in mandatory vaccination against covid when a. the virus had mutated into something less harmful and b. the current vaccines were no longer effective against that variant, was senseless but that does not mean that the principal of mandatory vaccination is senseless or that we should tolerate individuals who refuse to comply.

 

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

 

Liberal sentiments but that is not how it works.

Allowing individuals not to be vaccinated is why children are still suffering disability and death from Measles and pregnant women still fear Rubella, it is also why Polio, which cripples and kills, has still not been entirely eliminated in the world despite safe and effective vaccines being available against those diseases. Widespread mandatory vaccination is why Smallpox has been eradicated but @Mr.Bear and his cronies would have us believe that vaccination refusal by an individual or an individuals children is a fundamental freedom, it is not, the benefits to society as a whole in cases of public health and disease control will and should always outweigh the illogical paranoia of a few and their opinions for which I have no respect and zero tolerance.

It is very clear that the attempt to bring in mandatory vaccination against covid when a. the virus had mutated into something less harmful and b. the current vaccines were no longer effective against that variant, was senseless but that does not mean that the principal of mandatory vaccination is senseless or that we should tolerate individuals who refuse to comply.

 

 

I was referring to adults, and the post was directed at Mr Bear, who is an adult and therefore he can consent to whether or not he is immunised or not.

 

15 hours ago, paulyg said:

But there is forced vaccination for the military and a few other sectors of employment and they have no choice if they want to remain in employment in their current field.

 

Seriously? This is rightly so. Soldiers are exposed to possible bio weapons? Anthrax etc. Same in the medical profession. I never saw anyone get upset because they needed to be immunised against Hepatitus when they worked in the medical field or childcare.

 

15 hours ago, Mr.Bear said:

 

 

Ok.

Fair enough.

I don't try to keep in any way to get the vaxx or not to get it.

If you want to have 5-6-7 or 10 vaxx, then go for it.

 

Then please stop posting anti vax drivel.

 

I will no longer participate in this thread. It is as was said before by fraufruit the "Ground hog" day thread...

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54 minutes ago, Anna66 said:

I was referring to adults, and the post was directed at Mr Bear, who is an adult and therefore he can consent to whether or not he is immunised or not.

 

Those same adults will invariably refuse to have their children vaccinated so mandatory vaccination for both children and adults has to be considered in the event of a public health need.

 

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4 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

Liberal sentiments but that is not how it works.

Allowing individuals not to be vaccinated is why children are still suffering disability and death from Measles and pregnant women still fear Rubella, it is also why Polio, which cripples and kills, has still not been entirely eliminated in the world despite safe and effective vaccines being available against those diseases. Widespread mandatory vaccination is why Smallpox has been eradicated but @Mr.Bear and his cronies would have us believe that vaccination refusal by an individual or an individuals children is a fundamental freedom, it is not, the benefits to society as a whole in cases of public health and disease control will and should always outweigh the illogical paranoia of a few and their opinions for which I have no respect and zero tolerance.

It is very clear that the attempt to bring in mandatory vaccination against covid when a. the virus had mutated into something less harmful and b. the current vaccines were no longer effective against that variant, was senseless but that does not mean that the principal of mandatory vaccination is senseless or that we should tolerate individuals who refuse to comply.

 

 

You seem to imply that mandatory vaccination against covid would have made sense at an earlier stage of the pandemic (before a. and b.), on the basis that covid could have been eradicated?

The current vaccines could never have eradicated covid and that was clear from well before they were rolled out.

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I'm disappointed the Bundesregierung seems to have dropped the compulsory vacc legislation, although I must admit it would have been a nightmare to enforce. 

The biggest problem now, is that this is going to go on and on here in Germany, in Autumn and then Winter the restrictions are going to have to be that more strict. 

I had hoped that we would all be much further by now in getting the case numbers right down (even if not completly to zero). 

In that sense the UK seems to be doing better at the moment, but that's thanks the number of of vaccs being higher there. 

 

 

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Keith said it. Excellent post. Wasted on some, who will never get it.

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32 minutes ago, vulturesquadron said:

 

You seem to imply that mandatory vaccination against covid would have made sense at an earlier stage of the pandemic (before a. and b.), on the basis that covid could have been eradicated?

The current vaccines could never have eradicated covid and that was clear from well before they were rolled out.

 

I do not believe I implied anything of the sort, it was not until late 2021 that the issue of a large number of adults  who were eligible for vaccination had refused it became known and by the time legislation for mandatory vaccination had been drafted in early 2022 the window of opportunity to offer a vaccine that might have been effective had clearly past. How much good mandatory vaccination earlier in the pandemic could have done is completely unknown particularly as demand for the vaccines initially outstripped supply up until late summer 2021 and it is clear we will need much more effective vaccines if eradicating the covid virus becomes a necessity. Regardless of that often used argument by the antivaxxers it  is irrelevant to the discussion of mandatory vaccination against other diseases that plague mankind or possibly even covid in the future.

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37 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

I do not believe I implied anything of the sort, it was not until late 2021 that the issue of a large number of adults  who were eligible for vaccination had refused it became known and by the time legislation for mandatory vaccination had been drafted in early 2022 the window of opportunity to offer a vaccine that might have been effective had clearly past. How much good mandatory vaccination earlier in the pandemic could have done is completely unknown particularly as demand for the vaccines initially outstripped supply up until late summer 2021 and it is clear we will need much more effective vaccines if eradicating the covid virus becomes a necessity. Regardless of that often used argument by the antivaxxers it  is irrelevant to the discussion of mandatory vaccination against other diseases that plague mankind or possibly even covid in the future.

 

Fair enough, obviously I read too much into your post, my mistake.

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5 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

I'm disappointed the Bundesregierung seems to have dropped the compulsory vacc legislation, although I must admit it would have been a nightmare to enforce. 

The biggest problem now, is that this is going to go on and on here in Germany, in Autumn and then Winter the restrictions are going to have to be that more strict. 

I had hoped that we would all be much further by now in getting the case numbers right down (even if not completly to zero). 

In that sense the UK seems to be doing better at the moment, but that's thanks the number of of vaccs being higher there.

 

Unfortunately it's going to go and and on, regardless of how many people are vaccinated.

Lockdowns are counter-productive and unsustainable, so we will need to live with the virus in another way.

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On 6/11/2022, 1:41:50, alexunterwegs said:

I'm disappointed the Bundesregierung seems to have dropped the compulsory vacc legislation, although I must admit it would have been a nightmare to enforce. 

The biggest problem now, is that this is going to go on and on here in Germany, in Autumn and then Winter the restrictions are going to have to be that more strict. 

I had hoped that we would all be much further by now in getting the case numbers right down (even if not completly to zero). 

In that sense the UK seems to be doing better at the moment, but that's thanks the number of of vaccs being higher there. 

 

 

 

 

So you are the one who wants every person to get the vaxx, if he wants it or not.

I hope you get hit by a car.

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20 hours ago, vulturesquadron said:

 

Unfortunately it's going to go and and on, regardless of how many people are vaccinated.

Lockdowns are counter-productive and unsustainable, so we will need to live with the virus in another way.

It won't disappear completly, but it will be a  lot worse, the less people who are vaccinated.  

If the case numbers start climbing drastically again, the state has to act to prevent the health service from being overwhelmed. Its not just the Corona cases, lots of cancer and other patients are at risk if the hospitals can't cope. 

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4 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

It won't disappear completly, but it will be a  lot worse, the less people who are vaccinated.  

If the case numbers start climbing drastically again, the state has to act to prevent the health service from being overwhelmed. Its not just the Corona cases, lots of cancer and other patients are at risk if the hospitals can't cope. 

 

If only case numbers are the metric to trigger further lockdowns, we definately will have more lockdowns. Cases are overall trending upwards, including since vaccination started https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#explore-the-global-situation

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this trend changing.

 

I agree that Corona cases place an extra burden on hospitals, which can impact other patients. However, what if the benefit of a lockdown (meaning reduced spread, cases, deaths) is outweighed by the negative consquences (people getting sick, dying, in various direct and indirect ways)?

 

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38 minutes ago, vulturesquadron said:

 

If only case numbers are the metric to trigger further lockdowns, we definately will have more lockdowns. Cases are overall trending upwards, including since vaccination started https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus#explore-the-global-situation

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this trend changing.

 

I agree that Corona cases place an extra burden on hospitals, which can impact other patients. However, what if the benefit of a lockdown (meaning reduced spread, cases, deaths) is outweighed by the negative consquences (people getting sick, dying, in various direct and indirect ways)?

 

Useful chart. I think what I should have said, is, if the numbers  in intensive care stations and deaths start to drastically rise again, then the state will have to act. One of the first duties of a state is to protect human life. To my mind the best and most logical way of achieving that is through vaccination, but if that's not possible for political or whatever reasons, then other measures have to be brought in which control or reduce fatalities. 

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