3G in Restaurants?

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10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

ok but the UK has let it go and current the situation is

 

UK 350 deaths per day

Germany 170 deaths per day

 

 

Yes but you forget that the people in charge in Germany are not trying to cover up corruption and scandals and protect their leader like they are in the UK.

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

ok but the UK has let it go and current the situation is

 

UK 350 deaths per day

Germany 170 deaths per day

 

 

Not sure where you are getting your figures from but the website in the link below  reports as of yesterday the 7 day rolling average is:-

UK 260 deaths per day

Germany 145 deaths per day

Still a big difference but that may be down to other factors not associated with vaccination or covid restrictions for example with the same criteria France currently has 277 and Italy 352 deaths per day. More likely indicative of where they are on the Omicron wave.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

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19 hours ago, catjones said:

 

Not only that, but where's the downside of getting vaccinated?

 

Downside of vaccination includes:

- risk of adverse reaction

- potential for original antigenic sin (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/)

- potential for antibody-dependent enhancement (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8512237/)

- elevated risk depending on situation of prospective vaccinee, e.g. unvaccinated pregnant women are not recommended to be vaccinated during first trimester, but rather in second (https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/Infekt/EpidBull/Archiv/2021/38/Art_02.html)

- risk of suppression of innate antibodies (https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/the-alleged-case-for-experimental-c-19-vaccination-of-children-is-merely-based-on-silo-mentality-and-immunological-ignorance)

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Omicron seems to be affecting small kids more than the previous variants.  Which is strange because Omicron seems to be milder on adults compared to previous variants.

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35 minutes ago, vulturesquadron said:

 

Downside of vaccination includes:

- risk of adverse reaction

- potential for original antigenic sin (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/)

- potential for antibody-dependent enhancement (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8512237/)

- elevated risk depending on situation of prospective vaccinee, e.g. unvaccinated pregnant women are not recommended to be vaccinated during first trimester, but rather in second (https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/Infekt/EpidBull/Archiv/2021/38/Art_02.html)

- risk of suppression of innate antibodies (https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/the-alleged-case-for-experimental-c-19-vaccination-of-children-is-merely-based-on-silo-mentality-and-immunological-ignorance)

Can you also tell us which of this downsides one would not have to worry about in case of infection while being unvaccinated?

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1 hour ago, vulturesquadron said:

Downside of vaccination includes:

 

Betterl to ask what are the downsides of being unvaccinated, over and above the obvious ones of being at a much higher risk of infection serious illness and death from covid, there is the reduced opportunity of a social life. There are also several studies that have found considerable differences in the intelligence levels of the unvaccinated compared to those who are vaccinated although it is unclear at this time whether lower intelligence is a cause or effect of being unvaccinated.:D

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4 hours ago, jeba said:

Can you also tell us which of this downsides one would not have to worry about in case of infection while being unvaccinated?

He has nothing to worry about, he has horse dewormer.

 

I miss the times of being young and climbing dangerous cliffs without any protective gear. I was strong and cautious, so "did not need" it.

 

These times: cancel a moderate climb on via ferrata (with full gear and helmet on) because I do not feel safe to do it.

 

Being an antivax is not a God's gift. It's a rental which has to be returned to the rightful owner.

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Some good news... despite the insane number of Omicron infections, the number of Covid patients in ICU continues to fall.

 

30.01.2022

Total ICU beds: 24,694
Occupied ICU beds: 20,239 (82%)
ICU Covid cases: 2,268 (9,2%)
ICU Covid cases being ventilated: 1,213 (4,9%)
Free ICU beds: 4,455 (18%)

 

compared to a week ago on 23.01.2022

Total ICU beds: 24,861
Occupied ICU beds: 20,270 (81,5%)
ICU Covid cases: 2,424 (9,75%)
ICU Covid cases being ventilated: 1,427 (5,7%)
Free ICU beds: 4,591 (18,5%)

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19 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Not sure where you are getting your figures from but the website in the link below  reports as of yesterday the 7 day rolling average is:-

UK 260 deaths per day

Germany 145 deaths per day

Still a big difference but that may be down to other factors not associated with vaccination or covid restrictions for example with the same criteria France currently has 277 and Italy 352 deaths per day. More likely indicative of where they are on the Omicron wave.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

yes, of course the number varies on a daily bias, I think I got the figures for last Friday, because the weekend figures are often not very good

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38 minutes ago, yesterday said:

yes, of course the number varies on a daily bias, I think I got the figures for last Friday, because the weekend figures are often not very good

So just look at the numbers of total deaths/million: 1400 vs. 2250

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Can't reliably compare different countries.  The UK has been "running hot" since Summer, barely any restrictions and they're now looking at a downward trend on new infections and it's still the Alpha and Delta that are the "killers".  Germany has yet to hit's it peak I think but not sure restrictions are making much difference to the new infection rates.

 

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2 hours ago, jeba said:

So just look at the numbers of total deaths/million: 1400 vs. 2250

 

That is useless for seeing where we are now or what the trend is!

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51 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

That is useless for seeing where we are now or what the trend is!

Ok, then compare the numbers for the last 7 days. That will eliminate the error due to underreporting on weekends.

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

Ok, then compare the numbers for the last 7 days. That will eliminate the error due to underreporting on weekends.

 

:huh:That is exactly what I did, try and keep up!

 

On 30/01/2022, 13:14:34, keith2011 said:

Not sure where you are getting your figures from but the website in the link below  reports as of yesterday the 7 day rolling average is:-

UK 260 deaths per day

Germany 145 deaths per day

Still a big difference but that may be down to other factors not associated with vaccination or covid restrictions for example with the same criteria France currently has 277 and Italy 352 deaths per day. More likely indicative of where they are on the Omicron wave.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

 

 

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On 1/30/2022, 5:51:29, vulturesquadron said:

 

Downside of vaccination includes:

- risk of adverse reaction

- potential for original antigenic sin (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28479213/)

- potential for antibody-dependent enhancement (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8512237/)

- elevated risk depending on situation of prospective vaccinee, e.g. unvaccinated pregnant women are not recommended to be vaccinated during first trimester, but rather in second (https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/Infekt/EpidBull/Archiv/2021/38/Art_02.html)

- risk of suppression of innate antibodies (https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/the-alleged-case-for-experimental-c-19-vaccination-of-children-is-merely-based-on-silo-mentality-and-immunological-ignorance)

 

 so many "potentials" and " elevateds" or vague terms like "adverse".

Why not list the risks of road-crossing or copy/paste the risks page(s) that come with every prescribed medication? 

 

Better yet, list just one human endeavor/activity that is 100% risk free?

 

Precision is not perfection.

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1 hour ago, Jonny said:

Meanwhile in Denmark...

 

Long but interesting. A pragmatic and intelligent infectious disease expert. ( Not me! The lady!)😂

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Fresh article in Nature (peer-reviewed and accepted for publication, but not finally edited yet). Danger! Contains facts!

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04460-3
 

Quote

 We assessed the ability of T cells to react with Omicron spike in participants T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 spike cross-recognize Omicron. The SARS-CoV-2 Omicron variant has multiple Spike (S) protein mutations1,2 that contribute to escape from antibody neutralization3-6 and reduce vaccine protection from infection7,8. The extent to which other components of the adaptive response such as T cells may still target Omicron and contribute to protection from severe outcomes is unknown. We assessed the ability of T cells to react with Omicron spike in participants who were vaccinated with Ad26.CoV2.S, BNT162b2, or unvaccinated convalescent COVID-19 patients (n=70). We found that 70-80% of the CD4+ and CD8+ T cell response to spike was maintained across study groups. Moreover, the magnitude of Omicron cross-reactive T cells was similar to Beta and Delta variants, despite Omicron harboring considerably more mutations. In Omicron-infected hospitalized patients (n=19), there were comparable T cell responses to ancestral spike, nucleocapsid and membrane proteins to those patients hospitalized in previous waves dominated by the ancestral, Beta or Delta variants (n=49). Thus, despite Omicron’s extensive mutations and reduced susceptibility to neutralizing antibodies, the majority of T cell responses, induced by vaccination or infection, cross-recognize the variant. It remains to be determined whether well-preserved T cell immunity to Omicron contributes to protection from severe COVID-19, and is linked to early clinical observations from South Africa and elsewhere

 

 

In plain English: either previous infection or vaccine protects from severe COVID for Omicron. It does not protect from (re)infection. Based on this the green pass (3G) standard might be canceled across the world. 

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