The landlord wants to sell the apartment, what are our rights?

22 posts in this topic

I did find some information here regarding the tenant rights in case the landlord wants to sell the apartment/house but the topic was from 2005. It says basically what the Maklerin said to us (the owner, who doesn't live in DE, gave her our number to make an appointment with us in the apartment):

- if we are OK with the fact that the rent contract will be transferred onto the new owner, she can immediately proceed with looking for the potential buyers; later, when the new owner has everything arranged, they might either keep us as tenants or declare that they want the apartment for themselves/close relative, etc. in which case we should be given at least the legally required 3 months notice

- if we want first to try to find a new apartment, they can allow until spring (which month exactly would that be, is unclear)

 

We have good reasons to want to stay in this apartment until the end of the year 2022 (in which case the notice would have to come into force in Sep 2022).

 

Some notes:

* we are a family of four, younger kid being 6 months old

* we have Rechtschutzversicherung, with the waiting period of 3 months already passed

* we are not members of the Mietverein

 

Given the above, would you say that our expectations are unrealistic?

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If a new owner gives you notice, it's at least 3 months but if you're living there 5-8 years it's 6 months and if it's more than 8 years it's 9.

 

You can delay it if you protest due to difficulty finding similar housing at an affordable price or your other good reasons etc. It's not unrealistic that you might be able to delay until 2022 but since you have Rechtschutz you should use it for a free consultation.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LeonG said:

If a new owner gives you notice, it's at least 3 months but if you're living there 5-8 years it's 6 months and if it's more than 8 years it's 9.

 

I thought the timelines were shorter... like after 4 years they would need 6 months... can you confirm those timelines?

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No, @LeonG is right, at least according to the Mieterbund website:

Quote

Bis zu einer Mietdauer von 5 Jahren können auch Vermieter, wenn sie einen Kündigungsgrund haben, mit einer Frist von 3 Monate kündigen. Dauert das Mietverhältnis länger als 5 Jahre, beträgt ihre Kündigungsfrist 6 Monate, und wohnt der Mieter schon länger als 8 Jahre in der Wohnung, gilt eine Kündigungsfrist von 9 Monaten. In alten, bis Herbst 2001 abgeschlossenen Mietverträgen steht oft, dass nach 10 Jahren Mietzeit eine 12-monatige Kündigungsfrist durch den Vermieter einzuhalten ist. Diese Regelung ist auch heute noch wirksam.

 

EDIT: Oh snap, Alexnf!

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2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

The Maklerin can always find a new owner who doesn't want to take over the place and kick you out.

 

"who doesn't want to take over the place"

You mean: who doesn't want to take over us as tenants? Or you meant: who insists on the apartment being free of rental contract? I think I found something that says: the buyer is obliged to the rental contract be transferred onto themselves. Afterwards they can declare that they want the apartment for themselves or close relatives

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Ah, one detail: if anyone in your family has some sort of physical handicap, I think it's possible to gain some negotiation time, e.g. you would need more time to find a suitable replacement due to disability requirements. Can someone confirm it?

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1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

I thought the timelines were shorter... like after 4 years they would need 6 months... can you confirm those timelines?

 

Too bad the timelines aren't shorter but in any case, it will be only 4 years on Apr 1, 2022

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

Ah, one detail: if anyone in your family has some sort of physical handicap, I think it's possible to gain some negotiation time, e.g. you would need more time to find a suitable replacement due to disability requirements. Can someone confirm it?

 

It would be good if someone confirms it but luckily, it's irrelevant for us.

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Sorry to hear about your pending situation, @java10. Even if you have legal insurance, I strongly suggest you join your local Mieterverein immediately, because they can give you better value for your money than a lawyer you find on the internets. The Mieterverein will also allow you to approach the situation proactively, whereas your legal insurance is unlikely to authorize coverage for a theoretical situation and will require further authorization for each additional step.

 

There are a variety of ways to delay an impending eviction and the Mieterverein will be familiar with all of them.

 

Having said that, it might be a good idea to start looking for an alternative place to live already. Even if the person who ends up buying your apartment doesn't want to claim Eigenbedarf, they're likely to raise your rent by the legal maximum allowed, to get the best possible return on their investment.

 

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Giving notice is only valid when the new owner plans to use it themselves though isn't it? 

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3 minutes ago, bennetn said:

Giving notice is only valid when the new owner plans to use it themselves though isn't it? 

 

Sure, but we're considering this as the less favorable options to us - better than thinking that they for sure will want to rent the apartment. Even if they do, due to the "good reasons" I stated in the opening post, we would give the notice latest Sep/Oct 2022. This means, this situation wouldn't be very bad for us should it came e.g. in January next year (read: we were planning to move out anyway).

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6 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Sorry to hear about your pending situation, @java10. Even if you have legal insurance, I strongly suggest you join your local Mieterverein immediately, because they can give you better value for your money than a lawyer you find on the internets. The Mieterverein will also allow you to approach the situation proactively, whereas your legal insurance is unlikely to authorize coverage for a theoretical situation and will require further authorization for each additional step.

 

There are a variety of ways to delay an impending eviction and the Mieterverein will be familiar with all of them.

 

Having said that, it might be a good idea to start looking for an alternative place to live already. Even if the person who ends up buying your apartment doesn't want to claim Eigenbedarf, they're likely to raise your rent by the legal maximum allowed, to get the best possible return on their investment.

 

 

Thank you, these are all very good pieces of advice.. We will most likely join the Mietverein.

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3 hours ago, java10 said:

if we want first to try to find a new apartment, they can allow until spring

Oh, how very generous. :ph34r:

Of course it is in the best interest of the Makler if you find a new apartment, as places with a sitting tenant are sold for less money than empty ones thus it directly influences her commission. 

 

I'd say join the Mieterverein, wait until there is a new owner (who HAS to take over the existing contract) and then point out that you want to leave at the end of the year anyway. 
If they really want you out, it will be much cheaper for them to wait a few months than to get into a long, drawn out battle with a tenant that has Rechtschutz, a Mieterverein membership and an infant. Even if they give you notice, you can contest it and - the market in Munich being as it is - you have the perfect reason to ask for an extension to the notice period as it will probably take longer than three months to find an adequate replacement for a family of four... 

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3 hours ago, java10 said:

We have good reasons to want to stay in this apartment until the end of the year 2022

 

8 minutes ago, maxie said:

and then point out that you want to leave at the end of the year anyway. 

 

The end of 2022.

 

Many people buy rented apartments as investments. There are limits to how much/often they can raise the rent. The Maklerin may be able to find one of these people. Then you might get a small rent raise or two to get you through 2022.

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9 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

The end of 2022.

In my mind, 2021 is already over :D. I am hoping 2022 will be better... 

 

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2 hours ago, java10 said:

 

"who doesn't want to take over the place"

You mean: who doesn't want to take over us as tenants? Or you meant: who insists on the apartment being free of rental contract? I think I found something that says: the buyer is obliged to the rental contract be transferred onto themselves. Afterwards they can declare that they want the apartment for themselves or close relatives

 

Yes, the buyer is obligated to take over the contract and can then decide what to do about it.  If the buyer decides to raise the rent, they need to give you 3 months notice for the raise in order to give you the opportunity to give notice on the apartment if you don't agree with the raise.  You can also stay in the apartment but still dispute the raise based on it being too much or not in accordance with the area mietspiegel.  The maximum raise in Munich is 15% in a 3 year period but still can't go over the mietspiegel.  Some helpful info here: https://www.muenchen.de/volltextsuche.html?query=mieterhöhung

 

It would be nice if the Maklerin decides to find a buyer who wants to continue renting it out but likely she and the owner will be more inclined to take the best offer than to worry about that.

 

2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Ah, one detail: if anyone in your family has some sort of physical handicap, I think it's possible to gain some negotiation time, e.g. you would need more time to find a suitable replacement due to disability requirements. Can someone confirm it?

 

Yes, you can still dispute eigenbedarf and buy time based on not being able to find affordable similar housing in the area but having a family member who is disabled would help in that case.

 

2 hours ago, bennetn said:

Giving notice is only valid when the new owner plans to use it themselves though isn't it? 

 

Or a close relative.  You can in some cases dispute eigenbedarf based on that, for example if the landlord claims the need for an apartment for his 80 yo. mother but the apartment is on the 4th floor in a building with no elevator.  It is also possible that the landlord starts off by renovating the apartment after you have moved out and then rents it out again at a higher price.  In that case, the former tenant can sue the landlord for moving costs but it would involve spying around the apartment to find out who is living there.

 

 

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Eigenbedarf notice was given to two separate tenants that used to live in my building, in both cases they managed to drag the situation out over 10 years, so if your aim is to stay put until the end 2022 that would seem doable , however things may work differently here in Berlin.

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1 hour ago, Wasteland said:

Eigenbedarf notice was given to two separate tenants that used to live in my building, in both cases they managed to drag the situation out over 10 years, so if your aim is to stay put until the end 2022 that would seem doable , however things may work differently here in Berlin.

 

If the landlord gives them 3 month notice, he can not start court proceedings to get them evicted until after 3 months that they don't leave.  Depending on how busy the courts are in their area, it can take months to get the eviction verdict from the court.  In my area about 4 yrs. ago it was taking 3-6 months and that is if the tenant doesn't fight it.  If the tenant pleads to the court that they are having problems finding comparable housing and they have small kids, other things going on etc. they will get more time.  Even if the landlord eventually does get an eviction verdict against them and hires a court bailiff to take care of it, the court bailiff will give them another 3-4 weeks to leave before an eviction actually happens.  If they go that far though, they could be responsible for the landlords costs.

 

I definitely recommend talking to a lawyer / mieterverein about this but I'm thinking that it may be beneficial to tell the maklerin that they plan to leave end of 2022 and she may use that as a selling point possibly or at least that they tell a new buyer if they want to give notice based on eigenbedarf as they may not bother to give them notice and try to go against them in court if they know they are leaving a bit later anyway.

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