BREXIT positives and negatives

790 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

"SO FEW"... 17,410,742???

They were the ones persuaded to vote, the so few are the likes of Farage JRM, BoJo and alike who promoted an agenda for their own selfish gains and not for the benefit of the majority.

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55 minutes ago, French bean said:

They were the ones persuaded to vote, the so few are the likes of Farage JRM, BoJo and alike who promoted an agenda for their own selfish gains and not for the benefit of the majority.

 

"SO FEW"... 17,410,742???

Not to mention a healthy general election win by the Tories with Boris as leader in 2019 under the slogan "get brexit done", if my memory still serves me well!

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I just hope that there is no one who voted for Brexit to get the foreigners out who is currently on the dole instead of taking a job in e.g. the meat industry ."The Poles are taking our jobs!" Well, I guess that's a positive then : they wanted them out - now they are out.<_<

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On 02/10/2021, 10:38:46, Krieg said:

As I promised to myself nine years ago, I will never apply for a UK visa again.  But the future looks promising, I look forward to SPD getting in power and finally allowing easy dual citizenship by naturalisation or the UK applying for Single Market access and having to join somehow the Schengen area, whatever happens first I think I will be landing in London in the next 5 years.

I might visit London or Scotland again at some stage but I will probably leave the rest of it until they learn a bit of humility. Last time we went there was 2017 and we had to listen to stories of how great Brexit was going to be from two B&B owners. I don't need that shite from ignorant fools when I'm on holiday. And I'm not even a foreigner in the UK. Also I like to be able to put diesel in the hire car lol.

 

Andrew Marr seems to have finally realised which way the tide is turning. He grilled Johnson over misleading statements this morning. Johnson looks like a man in trouble to me. The facade is crumbling and things will only get worse. The current situation (no checks on EU goods, rising wages in UK factories due to labour shortages) is completely unsustainable because what will happen is simple: production of Christmas turkeys will simply move to Poland or wherever and the goods will be shipped in instead of the labour. The UK will never be able to compete so UK producers will go bust and unemployment will spiral. The hard Brexit chosen actually demands protectionism, otherwise the UK market will be flooded with goods made more cheaply in the EU. It won't even take that long. The problem is, when checks are introduced, supply chains will collapse completely and there will be wide scale shortages. The UK was never in a position to simply pretend 44 years of economic integration hadn't happened.

 

The rumours of the UK already, not one full year after Brexit happened, ASKING to be readmitted to the EU single energy market shows that Brexit has failed. Personally I think it might fail very hard and fast now (something I didn't believe a few months back). 

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2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

"SO FEW"... 17,410,742???

Nobody was even suggesting the UK might sacrifice access to the single market or customs union in 2016 Keith. The Leave voters were told gigantic lies. Brexit looks nothing like the promises made by the likes of Johnson, Hannan and Farage.

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9 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

"SO FEW"... 17,410,742???

Not to mention a healthy general election win by the Tories with Boris as leader in 2019 under the slogan "get brexit done", if my memory still serves me well!

The UK electoral system is fundamentally broken. There hasn't been a government elected there with a majority of the popular vote since 1932! 

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16 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

"SO FEW"... 17,410,742???

Not to mention a healthy general election win by the Tories with Boris as leader in 2019 under the slogan "get brexit done", if my memory still serves me well!

But the number that voted against the Tories was 54% so whilst they had a majority with the FPTP system, they did not have a majority of the vote and again those that voted were not the ones who pushed forward the agenda. In fact I wonder how many voted Tory because of their long standing voting preference inspite of Brexit.

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10 minutes ago, French bean said:

But the number that voted against the Tories was 54% so whilst they had a majority with the FPTP system, they did not have a majority of the vote and again those that voted were not the ones who pushed forward the agenda. In fact I wonder how many voted Tory because of their long standing voting preference inspite of Brexit.

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking the UK as a whole did not get what they wanted with the brexit vote and subsequent elections. Do you really think that any political party will stand on rejoining the EU in the next general election no matter how bad things get between now and then?

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32 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The UK electoral system is fundamentally broken. There hasn't been a government elected there with a majority of the popular vote since 1932! 

What % of the total vote did the SDP get in the recent German Election? @French bean what percentage did not vote for the SPD, more than 54% I think?

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48 minutes ago, Elljay said:

I just hope that there is no one who voted for Brexit to get the foreigners out who is currently on the dole instead of taking a job in e.g. the meat industry ."The Poles are taking our jobs!" Well, I guess that's a positive then : they wanted them out - now they are out.

 

Just a moment am I wrong in thinking the UK has given residents permits to any EU national who wanted one and was resident in the UK at the end of 2020?

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2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

Don't fool yourself into thinking the UK as a whole did not get what they wanted with the brexit vote and subsequent elections. Do you really think that any political party will stand on rejoining the EU in the next general election no matter how bad things get between now and then?

But that's the point, that minority that really wanted Brexit had the resources and the nouse to take it to a vote and then relied on the stupidity and gullibility of a large number of voters to get it through. Just how many after the vote have now said that they either didn't realise what they voted for or wished they'd voted against.

 

2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

What % of the total vote did the SDP get in the recent German Election? @French bean what percentage did not vote for the SPD, more than 54% I think?

Germany has Proportional Representation, the UK does not.

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3 hours ago, murphaph said:

The UK electoral system is fundamentally broken. There hasn't been a government elected there with a majority of the popular vote since 1932! 

The 2010 government had 59% of the vote - sort of, because you could also argue they had 0% of the vote. But that's how it works with coallitions. I actually wanted the coallition to continue, but that wasn't an option on the ballot paper (But I do agree with the point completely).

 

The claim that the 2019 General Election was a pro-Brexit vote is pretty ridiculous. By the same logic, the fact that the British people voted for pro-EU governments in every General Election for decades means the people didn't want to leave. UKIP peaked at about 12.5% in 2015 I think; so even in 2015 87.5% of the voters wanted to stay in the EU, and if we apply the same "FPTP is what counts" logic then the country was 99.8% Remain because UKIP only won one seat.

 

The fact is General Elections aren't about a single issue. There were a lot more pro-EU conservatives voters than you might think, but they feared Corbyn more than Brexit, and of course there would have been a large number of pro-Brexit Labour voters. 

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1 hour ago, French bean said:

...how many after the vote have now said that they ... didn't realise what they voted for...

Frankly did anyone at all really understand how far reaching the tentacles of Europe were in the UK ? Certainly not those pulling the strings. They seem quite taken by surprise.

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2 hours ago, French bean said:

Germany has Proportional Representation, the UK does not.

Ah so it is OK in Germany for the  party that won to have nearly 75% of the votes not for them but not OK in the UK if the winners had 54% not for them?

Very proportional.;)

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