BREXIT positives and negatives

1,964 posts in this topic

Well yeah, Johnny. I get your point... but did we really want to be in that EU club ? I still look at EU and think not. 

 

So what now ?

 

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1 hour ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

I defo believe the Munich sign is for Brits. Brits are the ones who have recently started needing documents that they didn't need for almost 50 years. The Chinese and Americans have always needed these things. They don't get the reminder. The Brits, at least the thickos, might need one, and seeing their beloved flag is meant to alert them to that sign.

 

Humm, as far as I understand it, the Brits can come to the EU for up to 90 days in any 180 day period on a UK passport - thats it. you just say I am on holiday, they stamp your passport to show the date of entry. My nephew will visit my in September on that basis. If you come from China, you need a visa, you need a hotel booking, you need and of course a passport.

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/uk-citizens#:~:text=UK%20passport%20holders%20can%20cross,of%20travel%20permit%20is%20required.

 

So that sign its target to people who talk English, but are not coming from the UK as the sign refers to things you need coming from non-uk countries, like visa, hotel booking, etc.

 

Sure if you are a Brit and live in German, when you go on holiday and come back you will need to show a passport and maybe a residence permit, but only if you tell the customs guy that you live in Germany

 

 

Quote

The UK, like many Anglo countries, has no exit passport control, but the Home Office gets information electronically directly from the airline, so they know of overstayers. It's just that, like in the US, they are welcome to leave, but returning might be problematic. In the past, when records were not electronic and they relied on passport stamps, different story. I know overstayers who got away with it. These days, unlikely.

 

This is what I thought as well, but if the only check it on when you leave is done by the airline staff, then how is Germany going to fine you once you left the country for over stay ? The customs gards, need to check you so they can fine you before you leave the country. Maybe the airlines do give the data to the government, but kinda to late to fine you then. 

 

So I do not know how the UK catches these people.

 

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10 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

So I do not know how the UK catches these people.

 

 

Just one example of the 40.000 laws that need to be thought through, adjusted as necessary, implemented, communicated and enforced.

 

Only 39.999 to go...

 

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19 minutes ago, yesterday said:

 

Humm, as far as I understand it, the Brits can come to the EU for up to 90 days in any 180 day period on a UK passport - thats it. you just say I am on holiday, they stamp your passport to show the date of entry. My nephew will visit my in September on that basis. If you come from China, you need a visa, you need a hotel booking, you need and of course a passport.

 

So that sign its target to people who talk English, but are not coming from the UK as the sign refers to things you need coming from non-uk countries, like visa, hotel booking, etc.

 

Sure if you are a Brit and live in German, when you go on holiday and come back you will need to show a passport and maybe a residence permit, but only if you tell the customs guy that you live in Germany

 

 

 

This is what I thought as well, but if the only check it on when you leave is done by the airline staff, then how is Germany going to fine you once you left the country for over stay ? The customs gards, need to check you so they can fine you before you leave the country. Maybe the airlines do give the data to the government, but kinda to late to fine you then. 

 

So I do not know how the UK catches these people.

 

Germany doesn't care if you overstayed in the UK, and I don't know if the UK fines you either. The trouble begins when you want to re-enter the UK. The US, for example, has automatic consequences for overstaying. Less than 180 days, you do need to disclose and it could have ramifications on re-entry. Between 180 and 365 days, you get a 3-year ban. Over 365 days, you get a 10-year ban (there are nuances but I won't get into them here).

 

The entry requirements for UK nationals are the same for other third-country nationals, including Americans, which includes showing proof of return travel and sufficient funds/accommodation. They almost never ask for these from people from the 'west', including myself, but they can depending on your travel history. Here's the UK government guideline:  Entry requirements - Germany travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)  (scroll down a bit to the bullet points). Even Americans could be caught unawares by the rewuirements should they be asked to show proof, so I expect the Brits need even more reminding. Maybe the sign is just a show of force by Germany/the EU to emphasize that they can ask for this things and fuck you over if you're British and rub them the wrong way, as you have lost your right to free movement.

 

BTW here's the requirement for US citizens:  Germany International Travel Information (state.gov)  (check the entry requirements section) and Canada:  Travel advice and advisories for German.

 

Welcome to the club!

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The sign says, you need to show a hotel booking.

 

from your link,    Entry requirements - Germany travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk), this is not stated as a required document to enter  the EU. or shengen..from the UK.

 

Therefore either

 

 - the sign is wrong for UK citizens./ not intended to target UK citizen's

-  or the above link is wrong 

- or its intended for English talkers in general, who are not EU members, and are not part of the third party agreement, like people coming from China

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, yesterday said:

The sign says, you need to show a hotel booking.

 

from your link,    Entry requirements - Germany travel advice - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk), this is not stated as a required document to enter  the EU. or shengen..from the UK.

 

Therefore either

 

 - the sign is wrong for UK citizens./ not intended to target UK citizen's

-  or the above link is wrong 

- or its intended for English talkers in general, who are not EU members, and are not part of the third party agreement, like people coming from China

If you say so.

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Of course we are all immigrants to the EU, us  Brits here are almost all Brexit haters, for very good reasons as we see it, like me :D

 

Maybe we look hard at anything either side does and reads it in way that agrees with our ideas, ie the EU is just trying to get back at the Brits.

 

I just say that, on the basis of what I can read, this photo can be understood in different ways. 

 

Like FF said it could be

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You still might need to prove means, accommodation and plans to leave the Schengen area, just like any non-EU that enjoys the visa waiver.

 

Read: You are not special

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2 hours ago, yesterday said:

This is what I thought as well, but if the only check it on when you leave is done by the airline staff, then how is Germany going to fine you once you left the country for over stay ? The customs gards, need to check you so they can fine you before you leave the country. Maybe the airlines do give the data to the government, but kinda to late to fine you then. 

 

So I do not know how the UK catches these people.

 

 

It's electronic. When you book a flight or a ferry/tunnel crossing you have to give your passport details in advance - it's been that way for a number of years; can't remember when it started. It should take a computer system a few milliseconds to check that passport number to see when you arrived.

 

Maybe there are no exit controls as such, but there's always some sort of control and if the government tell the ferry operator/airport security/airline not to let you leave then they won't and will call the police to come and deal with you.

 

At least that's the theory. Of course many people voted for Brexit because it would allow these sort of tighter controls at the border, not wanting to hear that as a non-Schengen member the UK could have had exit checks and passport stamping anyway. Now Brexit is here they haven't changed anything much at the UK side because it would cost a load of money and wouldn't make much difference - something else Brexiteers didn't want to hear. As they say: if it made sense it wouldn't have to be a religion.

 

I don't know why people are getting so worked up about the sign. 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Wulfrun said:

63072f3b0bd25_johnmajorexposee.jpg.448a3

 

Blimey, so much truth and logic from a Tory politician. No wonder the current shower in Downing Street have more or less disowned him. 

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12 hours ago, optimista said:

Well yeah, Johnny. I get your point... but did we really want to be in that EU club ? I still look at EU and think not. 

 

So what now ?

 

 

So how's your life got any easier due to Brexit?  Scrolling through this thread on Brexit positives and negatives, I'm strugglling to find many positives.

Too much focus in the UK is on the EU as an institution, and not enough on how it makes life easier for people and businesses.  

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12 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

Humm, as far as I understand it, the Brits can come to the EU for up to 90 days in any 180 day period on a UK passport - thats it. you just say I am on holiday, they stamp your passport to show the date of entry. My nephew will visit my in September on that basis. If you come from China, you need a visa, you need a hotel booking, you need and of course a passport.

 

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/uk-citizens#:~:text=UK%20passport%20holders%20can%20cross,of%20travel%20permit%20is%20required.

 

So that sign its target to people who talk English, but are not coming from the UK as the sign refers to things you need coming from non-uk countries, like visa, hotel booking, etc.

 

Sure if you are a Brit and live in German, when you go on holiday and come back you will need to show a passport and maybe a residence permit, but only if you tell the customs guy that you live in Germany

 

 

 

This is what I thought as well, but if the only check it on when you leave is done by the airline staff, then how is Germany going to fine you once you left the country for over stay ? The customs gards, need to check you so they can fine you before you leave the country. Maybe the airlines do give the data to the government, but kinda to late to fine you then. 

 

So I do not know how the UK catches these people.

 

 

I think the biggest sanction for overstayers is that they may not be let in next time.   They need to be damned sure they never ever want to visit the country, or the EU's Schengen zone, again, at least in short or medium term. A bit like leaving the country after commiting a minor traffic offence or similar.  

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22 hours ago, optimista said:

Well yeah, Johnny. I get your point... but did we really want to be in that EU club ? I still look at EU and think not. 

 

So what now ?

 

The UK thought it didn't want to be in the club. It's now becoming clear how much of the UK's prosperity and stability was based on that membership. Time will tell what happens but it'll be an "interesting" few years in the UK.

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44 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Time will tell what happens but it'll be an "interesting" few years in the UK.

 

Indeed they are living in "interesting times"!

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17 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

So how's your life got any easier due to Brexit?  

 

Hasn t.

 

But do you really want to be financing and 'negotating' against Hungary, Poland, Romania, Malta, Greece, for example ? Places that do not play by the rules... no, I will note cite examples. We know corruption is rife and values are... erm... différent. God help 'em when Serbia gets in.

 

I am just not convinced.

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