BREXIT positives and negatives

1,959 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, murphaph said:

Lol!! Not too many (any?) Brexit fanboys around here anymore. None with the balls to admit it anyway.

 

 

Most people here could not deal with your anger issues and pointless posts and just left.

 

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I can't see that either of the candidates for the next PM will do anything more than stir up the mess even more. I do though sometimes despair at Labour or more so at KS, they have just announced a credible proposal to soften the looming power cost crisis in the UK involving freezing the price cap. When interviewed and asked if it was right that both rich and poor should benefit he totally faffed round it. Why couldn't t be honest and say like other benefits (e.g. Winter fuel allowance), means testing it would delay them getting  it to those in need and cost much more.

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18 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

 

Most people here could not deal with your anger issues and pointless posts and just left.

 

 

Have you ever heard the phrase, "The things we dislike most in others are the characheristics we like least about ourselves" 

 

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15 minutes ago, Tap said:

 

Have you ever heard the phrase, "The things we dislike most in others are the characteristics we like least about ourselves" 

 

It is a truth universally acknowledged, if we're honest.

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47 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Most people here could not deal with your anger issues and pointless posts and just left.

 

Well you are still here, how about some of those Brexit positives if you have any?

If not then anger seems like a justified response to a political misadventure which will destroy a hard won peace and cause all sorts of difficulties and challenges to those of us who relied on the advantages of being an EU member.

At this point (post the last election) I am long past anger and at the stage of 'Fuck them, they get what they deserve' but I certainly have felt sad, angry and disappointed in various measure over the years since 2016. This act of self sabotage by the English on the UK is just tragic.

 

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I sat on the sidelines eating popcorn and watching @murphaph duke it out with those Brexit fans.  They weren't a bit afraid of his frustration & anger and in fact loved to try and provoke it.  IMO they are long gone bcuz it's sadly clear he called it right.

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Actually, wasn't it mainly just one very creepy, stalky prat who kept popping up like a bad case of crotch rot just when you thought he'd finally slunk back into his hole for good?

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Well you have to say that while most of Western Europe have had 3 disasters since the start of the century, the finance crisis, covid and now the cost of power/living crisis  brought by the Ukraine war,  the UK has suffered 2 more, Tory austerity and brexit. I have always been deeply saddened by the brexit vote and further amazed that the British electorate have continued to elect such a rotten government clearly responsible for those additional disasters but that was their choice. Brexit on its own would have been bad enough but I had hopes they could have made a go of it but with everything else including bojos failure to act responsibly it is now a real mess and I predict it won't be easy and will be a long time before they come out of it.:( People who remember will look back on the times of Blair and Brown as the golden years

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2 hours ago, BethAnnBitt said:

I sat on the sidelines eating popcorn and watching @murphaph duke it out with those Brexit fans.  They weren't a bit afraid of his frustration & anger and in fact loved to try and provoke it.  IMO they are long gone bcuz it's sadly clear he called it right.

 

He didn`t call anything right.

 

1) EU dependent on Russian gas.

2) Italy about to go completely to the right (next elections)

3) Debt crisis, inflation at over 9% and the ECB still buying Italian debt (the only buyer of Italian debt).

 

And winter has not even started.

 

Would be interesting to know what exactly did he call right?

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1 hour ago, RenegadeFurther said:

1) EU dependent on Russian gas.

 

So what? How does brexit make things better or worse for the UK? Oh it doesn't, because the UK is a net importer of electricity mostly from France, UK energy prices are skyrocketing as well and being outside the EU certainly hasn't made that better.

1 hour ago, RenegadeFurther said:

2) Italy about to go completely to the right (next elections)

 

 Could be, but the UK could do more to mitigate the problems caused by this from inside the EU than outside.

1 hour ago, RenegadeFurther said:

3) Debt crisis, inflation at over 9% and the ECB still buying Italian debt (the only buyer of Italian debt).

 

 

Debt Crisis is a global problem, UK inflation rate was 9.4% last month and is only rising. RE: Italy, I recall a recent article talking about a "doom loop" for the UK. The only articles I can find referencing it are paywalled, but I don't understand how the UK being outside the EU insulates it from issues caused by Italian Debt. 

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31 minutes ago, pappnase said:

Debt Crisis is a global problem, UK inflation rate was 9.4% last month and is only rising.

 

Inflation is a great way of reducing debt, particularly if you borrowed at a much lower rate of interest.

 

1972:- Lend me 2.5p so I can buy a Mars Bar and I will pay you back double later.

 

2022:-  Here's that 2.5p back plus 2.5p interest

Mars Bars now cost 60p, (today's price for a 51g bar at Tesco) an  increase in value of 2300%, the loan increased by 100%, great deal for the borrower.

I strongly suspect China may well find itself in a similar position to lender of the 2.5 p for the Mars Bar then who knows what kind of financial impact that will have.

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But thats  not true for everything 

 

Capture.JPG.3907821003ee93065a01a0ea60dc

 

Sure a mars bar has gone from 2p in 73 to 65p in 2013  ( should also be said a Marz bar today is smaller than in 1973

 

But a pint of milk has not gone up anywhere near as much.

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, yesterday said:

But a pint of milk has not gone up anywhere near as much.

 

But I'm not seeing anything on the meme that was cheaper to buy in 2013 compared to 1973  and for sure things now are even more expensive.

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4 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

He didn`t call anything right.

 

1) EU dependent on Russian gas.

2) Italy about to go completely to the right (next elections)

3) Debt crisis, inflation at over 9% and the ECB still buying Italian debt (the only buyer of Italian debt).

 

And winter has not even started.

 

Would be interesting to know what exactly did he call right?

I think I might have called you a knob once.

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17 hours ago, murphaph said:

Lol!! Not too many (any?) Brexit fanboys around here anymore. None with the balls to admit it anyway.

 

What I could never understand was how any British based in Europe could see anything in Brexit.  I really struggle to see how, even if they take as gospel everything they read in the Daily Telegraph or Express, they could see any benefits from Brexit as it effects their situation. Whether it be going through passport control, sending packages, moving between other EU countries, studying, or virtually any business transaction between the UK and the EU. I suppose there might be some who had their business interests in Europe neatly settled long before Brexit, maybe having taken out dual nationality, but even they will come across extra hurdles. 

 

Of course, you do wonder if some of the self acclaimed Brexit lovers were actually based in Europe. The forum is obviously set up to speak for the interests of english speakers living in Europe, but in the age of the internet, that's pretty simple to get around. 

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3 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

I really struggle to see how, even if they take as gospel everything they read in the Daily Telegraph

The answer is in that sentence.

A lot of business people (even those who trade with the EU) who didn't concern themselves properly with the arguments or likely consequences, simply bought the line being peddled by the Telegraph (and of course by one notorious former Telegraph scribbler) that the best of all world's was possible: seamless trade with the EU and the ability for the UK to set its own (lower/lesser) rules on tax, health and safety, employment rights etc.

 

It was always a non-starter, but the lie was so often repeated that some people believed it. Two selective "facts" were used to justify this flawed idea 1) that the UK was a significant net contributor to EU coffers and 2) that the EU exported more to the UK, than the UK exported to the EU. Add to that the usual Torygraph hyperbole about the UK being such a key player in global trade and politics (they need us! the German car industry will be begging for a deal etc), and you can see that for a certain type of person/fool, it would seem Brexit was going to allow the UK to both have and eat the cake.  

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I have lived in Germany for many years and belong to the group who loved the EU, as soon as I started being interested in politics and history.

 

The Cameron regime did not allow me to vote in the referendum 2016.

 

I do not have any disadvantage from bxxxt but I think it could have a great positive effect, making transporting goods back and forth less attractive, reducing use of energy and resources, reducing economic growth.

 

If it had happened 30 years ago my life might have been very different, who knows, might have been better. But "we do not do what if".

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36 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

, even if they take as gospel everything they read in the Daily Telegraph or Express

I think the only possible answer to this was that some of what was written was stuff like 'We will put our citizens rights first', 'we won't use you as bargaining chips', 'no hard border in Northern Ireland AND full control of our borders', 'easiest trade deal in history' 'we hold all the cards; ... 

All lies of course but it was written at various points.

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6 hours ago, pappnase said:

So what? How does brexit make things better or worse for the UK? Oh it doesn't, because the UK is a net importer of electricity mostly from France, UK energy prices are skyrocketing as well and being outside the EU certainly hasn't made that better.

 Could be, but the UK could do more to mitigate the problems caused by this from inside the EU than outside.

You are now embarrassing yourself.

Because of Germans reliance on Russian gas all EU countries have to cut reliance on Russian gas by 15%. The EU this winter is screwed because of Merkel.

 

6 hours ago, pappnase said:

 

Debt Crisis is a global problem, UK inflation rate was 9.4% last month and is only rising. RE: Italy, I recall a recent article talking about a "doom loop" for the UK. The only articles I can find referencing it are paywalled, but I don't understand how the UK being outside the EU insulates it from issues caused by Italian Debt. 

 

You really have no clue. Wow.

 

Italy is bankrupt. The only people buying Italian debt is the ECB.

 

Who do you think has to bail out Italy? Make a guess.

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