BREXIT positives and negatives

1,841 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Dembo said:

Yes the government rejected a proposal to double the number of passport booths. But then that was only necessary because of Brexit.

It´s chaos everywhere,or do you think the jams at German airports are down to Brexit too?

Workmate flew to Turkey from Nürnberg on Monday and was advised to get there 4 hours before his flight was due. He was also told that it could be he goes to Turkey but his luggage turns up later.

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54 minutes ago, Keleth said:

It´s chaos everywhere,or do you think the jams at German airports are down to Brexit too?

 

 

I didn't say anything about airports. I thought the problems there aren't at the passport controls and are down to airports and airlines getting rid of staff due to Covid. But I do know that there were many times I would have missed my connection/train at Frankfurt or Amsterdam if I hadn't been able to use the e-Gates, which if I were doing the same trip now would be a problem/delay. Because of Brexit.

 

Whereas the problems at Dover seem to be 100% caused by extra delays at passport controls caused by Brexit. Maybe France didn't send extra officers, but then if it wasn't for Brexit would they need to?  

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1 hour ago, Dembo said:

 

I didn't say anything about airports. I thought the problems there aren't at the passport controls and are down to airports and airlines getting rid of staff due to Covid. But I do know that there were many times I would have missed my connection/train at Frankfurt or Amsterdam if I hadn't been able to use the e-Gates, which if I were doing the same trip now would be a problem/delay. Because of Brexit.

 

Whereas the problems at Dover seem to be 100% caused by extra delays at passport controls caused by Brexit. Maybe France didn't send extra officers, but then if it wasn't for Brexit would they need to?  

 

Yer ok it´s all Brexits fault.

By the way have you ever been to Dover in the 1st couple of weeks of the kids summer holidays ?

 

Some of the remainers are really as bad as the leavers in that everything is down to Brexit,not a cluster of things of which Brexit is one but it´s all down to Brexit.According to the leavers it´s all down to the French.

You´re both a group of fucking idiots who can´t see past the end of their noses.

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On 23/07/2022, 05:48:28, Keleth said:

Please will people stop blaming the chaos at Dover and airports etc on just Brexit.

Brexit is a part of it but is not the only reason.

It's largely Brexit though. Prior to it the French often waved cars through upon seeing the outside cover of a British passport. Nowadays they are obliged under Schengen rules to check the stamps/swipe every third country passport to ensure that anyone entering the Schengen zone hasn't already exceeded the 90 day limit. This is agonisingly slow compared to the pre-Brexit scenario at channel ports. It's set to get worse this year too as full biometric scanning of all third country nationals entering the Schengen zone becomes compulsory. I see no option but for all third country occupants of every vehicle to get out to have their faces scanned. The shit is really going to hit the fan then. 

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On 23/07/2022, 06:48:28, Keleth said:

Brexit is a part of it but is not the only reason.

No you are right, some of the problems around the ports in the UK are due to the chronic underfunding and mismanagement of road and rail infrastructure outside the capital, and some of them are probably down to bloody mindedness on the part of the French authorities.

The underfunding is classic London politics made worse by the fact that what money which was made available was being spent on keeping out "undesirables" instead of making the traffic flow easily.

The French bloody-mindedness is both totally expected and in this case totally justified, the UK has pissed around so much here that I can't see they are doing anything wrong here.

There role is to protect the integrity of the EU/Schengen border not to make it easy for Johnny-Englander to get a sun-tan.

For years before the new brexit rules kicked in, the hauliers and the ports (and anyone with a lick of sense) said that something needed to be done to fix the problems.

 

For the last 2 years we had mostly the same issue but without the holiday makers because of covid. Any investment that was made was to keep the food flowing, but that in and of itself was too little too late, and now that people are allowed to travel again it's chaos exactly as predicted.

A huge lorry park on the M20 will "help", with lots of extra trucks, but it won't help the families trying to go away to France.

 

Now that brexit is here, all those symptoms of a chronically broken system are much more visible, because a system that was already past the point of no return in a race to the bottom for quality vs cost, is simply unable to cope with any major shock.

 

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7 minutes ago, pappnase said:

Now that brexit is here, all those symptoms of a chronically broken system are much more visible, because a system that was already past the point of no return in a race to the bottom for quality vs cost, is simply unable to cope with any major shock.

Yep and the problem is with people blaming Brexit the chronic underfunding that has gone on for years is forgotten about.

This govt uses Covid to hide the damage done by Brexit and Brexit to hide the damage done by chronic mismanagement.

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When I flew from Crete to Hamburg the other week, I ( and everybody else ) had to show their ID twice before boarding the plane and I waited almost an hour and a half for my luggage at Hamburg.

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When I flew from Crete to Hamburg the other week, I ( and everybody else ) had to show their ID twice before boarding the plane and I waited almost an hour and a half for my luggage at Hamburg.

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Of course there are problems and delays in airports here in Germany, but the problems now at Dover and around the Eurotunnel terminal are clearly worse because of Brexit.  The basic problem is that French border officials are obliged to find out how much funds UK travellers have and whether they have overnight accommodation. Because of the new 90 day limit. That obviously takes extra time and if you multiply the time by several thousand a day,  its not rocket science that things are going to take longer to process.  Yes, the French could go out of their way to pour more resources into their border personel, but I guess their thinking is, why. The Brits voted for extra bureaucracy at the borders, so that's what their getting. 

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Of course there are problems and delays in airports here in Germany, but the problems now at Dover and around the Eurotunnel terminal are clearly worse because of Brexit.  The basic problem is that French border officials are obliged to find out how much funds UK travellers have and whether they have overnight accommodation. Because of the new 90 day limit. That obviously takes extra time and if you multiply the time by several thousand a day,  its not rocket science that things are going to take longer to process.  Yes, the French could go out of their way to pour more resources into their border personel, but I guess their thinking is, why. The Brits voted for extra bureaucracy at the borders, so that's what their getting. 

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6 hours ago, Keleth said:

This govt uses Covid to hide the damage done by Brexit and Brexit to hide the damage done by chronic mismanagement.

 

On the other hand a friend posted this and it's funny, and if I don't laugh about this I will cry.

May be an image of 1 person and text that says "IT'S NOT DUE TO BREXIT! ITSNOT, ITS NOT, ITS NOT,ITS NOT, ITS NOT, ITS NOT!!!!"

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7 hours ago, pappnase said:

No you are right, some of the problems around the ports in the UK are due to the chronic underfunding and mismanagement of road and rail infrastructure outside the capital, and some of them are probably down to bloody mindedness on the part of the French authorities.

The underfunding is classic London politics made worse by the fact that what money which was made available was being spent on keeping out "undesirables" instead of making the traffic flow easily.

The French bloody-mindedness is both totally expected and in this case totally justified, the UK has pissed around so much here that I can't see they are doing anything wrong here.

There role is to protect the integrity of the EU/Schengen border not to make it easy for Johnny-Englander to get a sun-tan.

For years before the new brexit rules kicked in, the hauliers and the ports (and anyone with a lick of sense) said that something needed to be done to fix the problems.

 

For the last 2 years we had mostly the same issue but without the holiday makers because of covid. Any investment that was made was to keep the food flowing, but that in and of itself was too little too late, and now that people are allowed to travel again it's chaos exactly as predicted.

A huge lorry park on the M20 will "help", with lots of extra trucks, but it won't help the families trying to go away to France.

 

Now that brexit is here, all those symptoms of a chronically broken system are much more visible, because a system that was already past the point of no return in a race to the bottom for quality vs cost, is simply unable to cope with any major shock.

 

NOT a Brexit fan per se but I suppose if you want tourists- flexibility?

https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/04/25/portugal-becomes-first-country-to-ignore-brexit-and-fast-track-uk-tourists

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Double post, imagine! Edit edit; just wrote it, but too long time has passed to edit:blink:

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20 hours ago, pappnase said:

No you are right, some of the problems around the ports in the UK are due to the chronic underfunding and mismanagement of road and rail infrastructure outside the capital, and some of them are probably down to bloody mindedness on the part of the French authorities.

Snip.


Whilst I don't disagree, if the bottleneck is passport controls there's obviously little benefit to upgrading the M20 to 8 lanes, although it might make life less miserable for the people of Kent who don't want to live in a car park.

The damning thing is that they had 4 1/2 years between the referendum and Brexit becoming a reality to prepare for this. It shouldn't be too hard to work out: it's not possible for an infinite number of people to turn up in Dover because there are only so many ferries / trains through the tunnel and when it's busy everyone will book in advance. So you can work out the number of passport booths and officers you're going to need for the worst case maximum capacity based on the average number of people per car and the average amount of time the new checks require.  

 

Apparently the port of Dover asked the government to fund a £33m upgrade to double the number of passport controls - perhaps they'd made the calculation, but the government refused, prefering instead to believe in Brexit. But what's £33m? Some estimates put the cost of Brexit as much as £800m per week. By the time you've spent many hours waiting on the M20 to get to a ferry the country has already lost more money due to Brexit than it would have cost to make sure the queues never happened.

 





 

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@Dembo I think the real problem is this idea that there is 'one problem and one solution'.

The stuff you say about passport control is right, but there are a bunch of other problems too. If passport control were running at full efficiency it would only solve 

 

Passport control is slower simply because more checks have to be done. This applies to everyone. However for trucks etc it's both passport control and customs checks.

Because of this delay, the trucks are backing up.

Because the trucks are backing up the motorway is being used as a carpark. Because the motorway is blocked people are being diverted onto other roads.

Because the other roads are too small for the traffic volume there are huge delays and misery for travellers.

 

As you say they had lots of time between the vote and the implementation date to think about this stuff, but as I said everyone in the industry was screaming for help both in terms of detail regarding the plans and money to finance it all. The government provided neither.

 

IMO Brexit was always going to be hell, but both explicit bad choices driven by hard-line ideology and negligent preparation caused by the kakistocracy that the English citizenry chose to elect lead to the current shitshow.

 

I've moved on from the transport stuff and I'm looking at the NHS. People are now seriously suggesting charges for hospital stays because they are so short of money.

I thought we were going to have £350m per week extra to fund the NHS properly...

 

 

 

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@Dembo I think the real problem is this idea that there is 'one problem and one solution'.

The stuff you say about passport control is right, but there are a bunch of other problems too. If passport control were running at full efficiency it would only solve that one thing.

 

Passport control is slower simply because more checks have to be done. This applies to everyone. However for trucks etc it's both passport control and customs checks.

Because of this delay, the trucks are backing up.

Because the trucks are backing up the motorway is being used as a carpark. Because the motorway is blocked people are being diverted onto other roads.

Because the other roads are too small for the traffic volume there are huge delays and misery for travellers.

 

As you say they had lots of time between the vote and the implementation date to think about this stuff, but as I said everyone in the industry was screaming for help both in terms of detail regarding the plans and money to finance it all. The government provided neither.

 

IMO Brexit was always going to be hell, but both explicit bad choices driven by hard-line ideology and negligent preparation caused by the kakistocracy that the English citizenry chose to elect lead to the current shitshow.

 

I've moved on from the transport stuff and I'm looking at the NHS. People are now seriously suggesting charges for hospital stays because they are so short of money.

I thought we were going to have £350m per week extra to fund the NHS properly...

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dembo said:

The damning thing is that they had 4 1/2 years between the referendum and Brexit becoming a reality to prepare for this.

This is the BIG problem.

Brexit is over and done with, it´s decided etc.

But what was needed was competent people to prepare for it and to carry on adapting to it. Instead, we got the biggest bunch of fucking clowns to deal with it who think that them blaming the EU will actually solve the problem. They keep up their soundbites to appease their supporters and don´t actually give a flying fuck about the country as long as they can keep milking it for all it´s worth and hang on to their knuckle-dragging supporters.

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I bought something from M&S online. I wasn't even sure I was buying from the UK company: the website was in German and all the prices in Euros. But even if yes, surely issues around customs have been solved this far into Brexit and they would just display the full price including any charges at the checkout.

 

But I was wrong. Had to pay a customs charge to DHL.


 

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